WYD Spain 2011: Michael Voris/Real Catholic TV events “not approved”.

This is quite unusual, perhaps even unprecedented, in the 27-year history of the Vatican-sponsored World Youth Day (WYD) events held every three years in a major city around the world. The official WYD website contains the following announcement in which it takes the remarkable step of publicly spurning American Catholic Internet commentator Michael Voris.

Link

Editor’s note: Ain’t church politics grand?!

16 Comments

  1. What I am about to write may sound like heresy to some people but I must write in view of the WYD and its non recognition of the Voris group and their suggestion for helping.
    I am not surprised and am thankful that WYD has put a halt to this groups tsunarmi of ideas. In repudiating Michael Voris they have simply suggested that his group acts beyond the authority of his recognised Bishops approval. It does not mean to say he is wrong it does mean that it will not accept his views as traditional catholic dogma necessarily.
    I first experienced the Voris you-tube phenomena a while ago and was quite frankly appauled by its lack of charity towards our protestent and non catholic bretheren. Indeed in a reply directly to one of my less than approving comments Voris declared that “protestants are evil” something that made my fingers bash out a response akin to star trek warp speed! No I am not a fan.
    Yes I appreciate that some catholics seem to agree with his war-like calls to defend the faith from what he expresses as the enemy. I am aware that some catholics agree with his stance and may be shocked by the WYD and even bewildered by its refusal to grant him free range in its meetings. I am not however.
    I will restate my reasons here and they may upset or confound some readers but I think it is about time that some of the “traditionalist” (although I do not see any tradition in them) right wing Catholic propagandists were confronted with another view point.
    To understand the Catholic position on anything we must drop the aggression of historical abuse in favour of reconciliation. We must leave behind us the notion that differences are always from Satan and learn to be more understanding and tolerent of our neighbour. It is difficult to embrace new or unusual belief systems especially if they seem to be wildly at odds with what we understand is the truth but we must learn to appreciate our neighbour has inate rights that are never to be pushed aside for the law. We must show respect and listen and seek new paths to embrace our neighbour.
    This means that our protestent bretheren are our neighbours. (indeed all men and women of good will no matter their creed or lack of it are also our brothers and sisters) and we shall treat them with humanity and kindness and love them as we love ourselves. It is not an option! If we fail to love them then we are damned and we cannot argue that we said “Lord Lord” as our defence.
    As Catholics we have many graces given to us, the Church, its Pope and its Bishops, its saints and Holy Men and Women, its angels and of course its Sacraments; Jesus loves us very much and despite our frailty and weakness he wants us to be with him forever in paradise. This does not mean that The Blessed Sacrament is given to us and not to them over there (whomever they may be). It means that we believe that Jesus and his Salvation are present in the world and in the sacraments he draws us to him by this grace. It also means that we do not think of ourselves as above or more holy or nearer to Our Lord than our neighbour. We are not!
    It is time that Catholics appreciated their history more and embraced with greater openess the Spirit of the Church that encourages us to be more open with ourselves and our neighbour. For example in Vatican Two we do not have the destruction of the Church or its swan song but we have a greater possibilty to learn and allow the Holy Spirit to become manifest in our lives. We welcome our christian bretheren and in our celebrations such as in World Youth we aspire to a hope-filled future and not an ending but a beginning. The Saints ask us always to look for Christ and it really is overdue in many Catholic hearts to allow Jesus in.
    If we constantly warn against non catholics as inspired and living in darkness then we fail Jesus and his cross of Salvation. If all we can do is see evil except in a by-gone era in a Catholic golden age that never really existed then we fail Jesus and his Divine call to us to follow him. If all we can do is imagine that love is simply insulated within the Catholic fold and foreign to all others then we fail the Gospels and their true meaning.
    If Michael Voris wishes to embrace Christ then I would rather he uses his considerable talents to understanding and toleration and healing rather than inflicting scars of cultural seperation upon the faithful. I suspect if the organisers of the WYD declined his offer to address the youth it was not because of power politic but rather a concern that Christ should be admired and adored in toleration, respect and humility. That Catholic thinking is to embrace all differences and learn as well as to teach.

    • Of course we love our neighbor. However, Protestants are not Catholic for a reason, they reject many of our sacraments, Holy Communion, Confession to name 2. Then there are a few commandments some Protestants like to break or support others in breaking. Our own catholic leadership support gay marriage, abortion, etc. Not all, but too many. Real Catholic TV takes over where our weak Catechesis left off.
      Many people don’t like Dr. Laura because she is short, to the point, and calls a spade a spade. So what. We’re not all Mr. Rogers. Evil exists and it is disguised as sugar and spice and everything nice.

  2. REAL CATHOLIC TV ADMINISTRATION IN CONFUSION OVER DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
    According to a World Youth Day announcement on their official website participants for the WYD 2011 Cultural Program must be recognized and endorsed by the bishops and Episcopal conferences in their respective countries. The announcement was made regarding Real Catholic TV which does not have this endorsement.

    The announcement said that those selected to participate in WYD 2011 promote the authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church.

    It’s Real Catholic TV which has really been promoting the real authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church. The inter religious department of the USCCB recently issued a statement saying Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church. This is contrary to the Bible and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Real Catholic TV has done a good program on this issue titled The Jews.

    Real Catholic TV could do a program on the subject of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The meaning of the dogma has been changed by bishops and priests and bishops conference. This is not unity it is division.

    Though it would be difficult for RealCatholic TV to do such a program since Simon Rafe of Real Catholic TV considers implicit salvation i.e those saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance, as explicit and so contrary to the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.He assumes Vatican Council II Lumen Gentium 16 is opposed to Cantate Domino , Council of Florence. It would mean that an ex cathedra dogma could have two interpretations.

    Then an Administrator on the Real Catholic TV forum Dr. Brian Kopp in correspondence with me on the Forum denied the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He was corresponding under the name Tom. When he became the Administrator he wiped out the ‘discussion’ on this subject. He again would not affirm the ex cathedra dogma on the Pascendi Forum. Then as administrator on the forum of Angelqueen he would provide information, under the name Tom, on extra ecclesiam nulla salus but would not affirm the dogma. Similarly he asked many questions which were answered on the forum of Fisheaters, but would not affirm the dogma.

    So it is no surprise that Michael Vorris has been unable to do a program on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There is too much of confusion and uncertainty among them.

    The USCCB and so many organisations can get away with heresy and it can be traced specifically to the implicit baptism of desire which is considered explicit. Then they call this unity among the bishops.Unity in heresy among the bishops conferences with the approval of the Vatican – and RealCatholic TV is unable to tackle this specific subject in the Catholic Church .
    -Lionel Andrades
    ___________________________________________

    When I saw the statement about Real Catholic TV not being “approved” for World Youth Day I was not surprised at all. Of course the liberal bureaucrats at the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) don’t approve. Faithful Catholics rock their dissident Catholic boat.

    Look at the way they treat those who question grants issued by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) to groups in bed with Planned Parenthood. Look at the high level officials who contribute to pro-abortion democrats, sit on the boards of pro-abortion organizations, and help to advance the culture of death. No wonder they went after hard-hitting, no apologies Real Catholic TV.

    If you haven’t seen the Madrid statement (no doubt written by a flunky at the USCCB) here is is. I found this part particularly interesting:

    Participants in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Program must be recognized and endorsed by the Bishops and Episcopal Conferences of their respective countries. Participants were selected for Cultural program by the World Youth Day organization in close collaboration with the Pontifical Council for the Laity. Those groups participating in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Festival have been selected because, through their various activities, they promote the authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church and have been endorsed by their local Bishop and Espiscopal conference. Michael Voris, “Real Catholic TV” and “No Bull in Madrid” did not receive such endorsement from their Bishop or Episcopal Conference.

    This statement clearly implies that Real Catholic TV does not merit the approval of the “Episcopal Conference” which is the USCCB. The implication is that they do not stand for the “authentic teaching and unity” of the Church. What a joke from the USCCB with their history of scheduling dissenters for various meetings of their departments and even for the bishops themselves.

    The USCCB has a record of persecuting orthodox Catholics. I’ve prayed the rosary often outside the November meeting of the U.S. bishops in both Washington, D.C. when they met on Capitol Hill and in Baltimore near Harbor Place. Several years we held signs begging the bishops to withhold Communion from pro-abortion politicians. The response of the bureaucracy one year was to get a horse-drawn carriage up on the sidewalk to block us while the bishops were boarding the buses to go to the opening Mass at the Basilica. While clearly wanting to keep us as far away from the bishops as possible, they weren’t altogether successful. Several bishops, including Archbishop Chaput, thanked us for being there.

    Several years ago, the Catholic Media Coalition of which I’m president, rented a hospitality suite at the Baltimore hotel and met with about a dozen bishops during the four day meeting. We attempted to get press credentials representing The Wanderer. Initially the press office said yes and told us to pick up our credentials the next morning. When we arrived, they informed us they had changed their mind because we were “lobbyists.” Their proof was the fact that we passed out invitations (in the lobby) for bishops to visit the suite. When we politely and calmly questioned their decision, they threatened us with arrest and ordered us out of the area. That is the m.o. of the USCCB bullies whose actions against Real Catholic TV are predictable and petty. As for their deep concern about the “authentic faith and unity” of the Church, there’s little evidence of that among some high level bureaucrats at the USCCB. Study the material at Reform CCHD Now and Stephanie Block’s work at SperoForum for some eye-opening (and sad) revelations about the bishops’ bureaucracy. Of particular interest is her article on John Carr.

    The USCCB targeting of Real Catholic TV is actually an encouraging development as far as I’m concerned. The fact that the USCCB Goliath singled out this little media David for persecution illustrates the very real impact Voris and his organization are having on liberal Catholics whose grip on the Church bureaucracy is slipping. So go fight the bull in Madrid, Mike. And keep that red cape close by as a sign of your fidelity to the Holy Spirit and Holy Mother Church. And all of us faithful Catholic stay-at-homes will be praying you touch many hearts!
    For more on Real Catholic TV at World Youth Day visit No Bull in Madrid.

    Posted by Mary Ann Kreitzer at 6:25 PM -Les Femmes

    THE GREAT BAPTISM OF DESIRE HOAX : FROM THE MOST HOLY FAMILY MONASTERY, CATHOLIC ANSWERS,USCCB,PONTIFICAL UNIVERSITIES AND SEMINARIES TO NUMEROUS OTHERS TODAY
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/great-baptism-of-desire-hoax-from-most.html#links

    USCCB CLARIFICATION IN HERESY?
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/05/usccb-clarification-in-heresy.html#links

    USCCB CONTINUES TO MOCK CATHOLIC FAITH WHILE CDF COMMENT IS AWAITED : FEENEYISM IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE MAGISTERIUM
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/08/usccb-continues-to-mock-catholic-faith.html#links

    VENERABLE POPE PIUS XII SAID ALL NON CATHOLICS NEED TO ENTER THE CHURCH WITH NO EXCEPTION TO AVOID HELL
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/venerable-pope-pius-xii-said-all-non.html

    Thursday, July 28, 2011
    WHAT I BELIEVE AS A CATHOLIC AND WHICH IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BEFORE AND AFTER VATICAN COUNCIL II
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-i-believe-as-catholic-and-which-is.html#links

  3. ORLD YOUTH DAY : QUESTIONS UNANSWERED BY RealCatholicTV
    RealCatholicTV has produced a video on the Catholic Church being the one, true Church for salvation yet so many questions are unanswered.(Only Catholics in Heaven http://youtu.be/2Dcfj0PU_JQ ) There is so much confusion among Catholics on this subject.
    1. Are all Protestants and Orthodox Catholics on the way to Hell as states the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

    2. Does the Church still teach that all Hindus, Jews, Muslims and other non Christians, with no exception are on the path to Hell, unless they convert into the Church?

    3. Venerable Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 referred to the ‘dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’. Through ‘the dogma’ was the pope saying all non Catholics in Boston need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell?

    4. Can implicit baptism of desire be known to us ‘explicitly’ in particular cases, so it contradicts the dogma?

    5. If only Jesus knows who is saved in invincible ignorance then how can Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

    6. How can the secular media claim that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy when he was repeating exactly what was taught by the Church Councils, popes and saints on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

    7. When the secular media, Reuters for example, claims that the Catholic Church has changed its teaching, after Vatican Council II, regarding other religions, where is the text in Vatican Council II for the basis of this false claim?

    8. Where in Nostra Aetate, Vatican Council II is it said that non Catholic religions are paths to salvation or that non Catholics can be saved in general in their religion?

    9. Why in all the Catholic Churches in the USA do they proclaim Jesus without the Church; without the necessity of membership in the Church for salvation?

    So when the RealCatholic TV team talk to youth at the World Youth Day in Spain, young people could ask, “Why is abortion wrong when the Protestants allow it and they are all going to Heaven according to the Catholic Church?”, “If the Church can change its teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus can it not do so also on contraception?”, “If all Hindus, Muslims and , Buddhists are not going to Hell with mortal sins on their soul what is wrong with contraception ?”, “Even Lutherans who dress immodestly will go to Heaven if they are in invincible ignorance? The dogma indicated originally that they are all, with no exception, on the way to Hell now you make an exception with invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire? Like you can also make an exception for immodesty in clothes and wilful lust as not being a mortal sin?”

    “All roads lead to Heaven, like, you don’t say on Real Catholic TV that all the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Pentecostals are damned to Hell?”

    “I mean if Vatican Council II has changed Church teaching on outside the Church there is no salvation, then I guess, everything is open to change?”

    “If it is prudent, expedient and politically safe for you to deny an ex cathedra dogma cannot I have reasons also to abort?”
    -Lionel Andrades
    E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com

    THURSDAY, JULY 28, 2011

    REAL CATHOLIC TV ADMINISTRATION IN CONFUSION OVER DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/real-catholic-tv-administration-in.html#links

  4. You’ve got great insights about apologetics, catholic apologetics, catholic teachings, defending the faith, what is apologetics, keep up the good work!

  5. Friday, August 12, 2011
    REAL CATHOLIC TV RESPONDS
    RealCatholicTV has sent me the link of Dr. Brenner’s talk on salvation. They have responded to the posts addressed to them. They still seem unable to do a program on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

    They could begin by pointing out that the two objective errors on Wikipedia.

    Wikipedia implies that Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) is an exception to the dogma and so this is the teaching today of the Catholic Church.

    1. According to Wikipedia, the Catholic Church does not teach anymore that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation and

    2. all those who are saved are saved today through Jesus and the Church, implying those saved implicitly are known to us and so they contradict the dogma. The dogma indicates everyone with no exception needs to be an explicit, formal member of the Church.

    Of course we believe all those who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church. We also believe that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church of salvation. There is no contradiction between the two statements. Wikipedia implies there is a contradiction.

    3. There is no mention of the text of the dogma Cantate Domino Council of Florence. Cantate Domino for centuries said everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation.

    Real Catholic TV could do a program on this subject.

    1. It could show the text of Cantate Domino and how it was interpreted over the centuries.

    2. It could show how Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma since we do not know any particular case saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, partial communion with the church etc.Implicit salvation is only known to God.

    3. It can show how Wikipedia’s claim that everyone does not have to be a member of the Church for salvation is wrong. It is an interpretation. A new doctrine.

    Please remember that Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston supported Fr. Leonard Feeney when he referred to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible’ statement. The dogma Cantate Domino indicates every non Catholic in Boston needs to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. This is the same message as that of Fr. Leonard Feeney.

    Fr. Leonard Feeney from Boston also said that there is no baptism of desire that we can know of. So the baptism of desire does not contradict the dogma.

    Neither are we likely to meet a person in Boston saved with the baptism of blood (martyrdom). This is irrational but this is what Wikipedia implies and it is accepted by Catholics.

    These are objective factual errors of Wikipedia. They need to be pointed out.

    There are so many religious Congregations in Rome, ask some of them what did the founders of their Congregation believe in – the ‘strict interpretation’ of extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Wikipidia version?

    Since Wikipedia considers implicit baptism of desire etc as explicitly known in particular cases it would mean Vatican Council II and the popes contradict themselves. Lumen Gentium 14 (all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation) is contradicted by Lumen Gentium 15 and 16 (implicit salvation explcitly known to us).Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 affirms ‘the dogma’ (‘strict interpretation’) and also denies it with an ‘explicit’ baptism of desire. It would mean he affirms Cantate Domino and also denies it with an explicitly known baptism of desire. It would mean Pope John Paul II in the Catechism of the Catholic Church N.1257 says every one needs explicit baptism of water for salvation but some people do not ‘explicitly’ need the Sacraments.

    It would be rational to say every body needs the baptism of water for salvation and there could be those saved implicitly and who are known only to God.

    This irrationality is a major cause of dissent and confusion in the Church. http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/see-difference.html

    -Lionel Andrades
    E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com

    WORLD YOUTH DAY : QUESTIONS UNANSWERED BY RealCatholicTV
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/world-youth-day-questions-unanswered-by.html#links

    REAL CATHOLIC TV ADMINISTRATION IN CONFUSION OVER DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/real-catholic-tv-administration-in.html#links

  6. Michael Voris Hits the Jackpot…that is, “the dogma”- Brother André Marie MICM
    RealCatholicTV affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

    Outside the Church there is no Salvation (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus)

    “Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:

    • “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

    • “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

    • “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

    But man, following the example of his natural father, Adam, often disobeys the authority of God. The fact that the doctrine had to be thrice defined itself proves the Church’s paternal solicitude in correcting her erring children who fall into indifferentism. The first goal of Saint Benedict Center’s doctrinal Crusade is to defend this doctrine. We present here a selection of various articles written for that end.

    Here are some recommended starting points on this all-important subject:

    • The Popes on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

    • The Fathers of the Church on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

    • Doctrinal Summary

    • Sentimental Theology

    • Pelagius Lives

    • Our Status in the Church (focusing on the doctrinal stance of Saint Benedict Center and the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary) –from the website Catholicism.org
    -Lionel Andrades

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/michael-voris-hits-jackpotthat-is-dogma.html#links

  7. http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/frleonard-feeney-was-not-in-heresy-but.html#links

    FR.LEONARD FEENEY WAS NOT IN HERESY BUT THE ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON SUSPENDED HIM

    Mother Angelica removed from EWTN, Michael Vorris criticized, bishops and priests transferred, magazine Christ to the World still suspended…

    The Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing refused to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted by Church Councils, the Church Fathers, popes, saints and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston. He denied that everyone needed to be a visible, explicit member of the Catholic Church for salvation with no exceptions. Instead he suggested that there were cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and this was explicitly known to us. He placed restrictions on the priestly faculties of Fr. Leonard Feeney even though the priest was not in heresy. He never corrected the Boston newspapers which reported that the Catholic Church has changed its centuries-old teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He refused to make the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 public for three years and even then would not lift the excommunication placed on Fr. Leonard Feeney for disobedience.-from APPEAL TO CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, VATICAN: IT’S TIME TO CLARIFY THE BOSTON HERESY OF RICHARD CUSHING September 24, 2011,Blog : eucharistandmission

    Here is the Decree of the Archbishop Suppressing Fr.Leonard Feeney and the St. Benedict Center.

    Richard J. Cushing, Archbishop of Boston – Decree Regarding Leonard Feeney, April 18, 1949

    Rev. Leonard Feeney, S.J., because of grave offense against the laws of the Catholic Church has lost the right to perform any priestly function, including preaching and teaching of religion.

    Any Catholics who frequent St. Benedict’s Center, or who in any way take part in or assist its activities forfeit the right to receive the Sacrament of Penance and Holy Eucharist.

    Given at Boston on the 18th day of April, 1949.

    Decree of Archbishop of Boston
    Michael Vorris has affirmed the dogma outside the church there is no salvation which was difficult for the Archbishop.

    Mother Angelica was also removed from EWTN by the local bishop.Mother Angelica had a page placed on the EWTN website with the statements of the Church Fathers and popes on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Mother Angelica was removed by the local bishop and the page on extra ecclesiam nulla salus was replaced with Fr. William Most’s errors critical of the dogma and Fr. Leonard Feeney.

    Just as the Archbishop of Boston misused his powers and placed restrictions on Fr. Leonard Feeney even though the priest was not in heresy, the bishop used his power to change the orthodox teaching on EWTN.

    Just as Archbishop Richard Cushing was in heresy for denying that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation the local bishop denies the same through EWTN. He also contradicts the Church Councils, the popes, the saints, the dogma and Vatican Council II.

    As Cardinal Richard Cushing was in heresy for suggesting that there was explicitly known cases of non Catholicshttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/frleonard-feeney-was-not-in-heresy-but.html#links saved in invincible ignorance or with baptism of desire and so this contradicted the ‘infallible teaching’ the bishop and the EWTN are in heresy for suggesting that the Native Americans were saved before the arrival of the Catholic missionaries.

    This is also the heresy of the Catholic Culture President-. EWTN, Trinity Communications, Jeffrey Mirus suggest Native Americans before the arrival of the missionaries were saved Blog: eucharistandmission

    Till today the clarification on the false condemnation of Fr. Leonard Feeney has not been made by the Vatican cardinals or by our pope.

    Fr. Frank Pavone was faithful to the bishops in dissent. He did not oppose the Eucharist being given to pro-abortion politicians as did Judy Brown of the American Life League. He would not affirm the dogma outside the church there is no salvation but preferred the heretical version on the website of Catholics United for the Faith, Steubenville. You’re not willing to accept the dogma outside the church there is no salvation and you want Catholics to accept the church’s teaching on abortion.

    Lay apologists on EWTN are denying the dogma with irrational contradictions and are holding on to their jobs.

    Fr. Corapi – it’s a mystery. I hope he is reconciled to the developments and continues his ministry where God permits him.

    I believe the expose of Fr. Maciel, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ was a great grace for him. He had the time to prepare himself spiritually before death. If he is still in Purgatory he has the hope of going to Heaven.

    He is still being judged and condemned by the leftist media which advocates the holocaust of abortion in which over six million infants are killed and no one is fined, imprisoned or have had to pay compensation.
    -Lionel Andrades

    ROBERT KENNEDY ASKED RICHARD CUSHING TO SUPPRESS FR.LEONARD FEENEY
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/07/robert-kennedy-asked-richard-cushing-to.html

    EWTN REMOVES FR.CORAPI BUT CONTINUES TO TEACH HERESY ON FR.LEONARD FEENEY WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE LOCAL BISHOP
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/ewtn-removes-frcorapi-but-continues-to.html

    Michael Voris Hits the Jackpot…that is, “the dogma”- Brother André Marie MICM -RealCatholicTV affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/michael-voris-hits-jackpotthat-is-dogma.html#links

    REVIEW OF CATHOLICS UNITED FOR THE FAITH ARTICLE ‘ WITHOUT THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION’

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2009/10/review-of-catholics-united-for-faith.html#links

  8. Saturday, September 24, 2011

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/appeal-to-congregation-for-doctrine-of.html#links

    APPEAL TO CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, VATICAN: IT’S TIME TO CLARIFY THE BOSTON HERESY OF RICHARD CUSHING

    CDF THERE IS NO EXPLICIT BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND NO TEXT MENTIONS IT: THERE IS NO KNOWN EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS OR TO VATICAN COUNCIL II (LG 14, AG 7)

    PLEASE CORRECT THE ERROR OF EWTN, USCCB, WIKIPEDIA AND NUMEROUS OTHERS.

    To His Eminence William Cardinal Levada,
    Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican.

    Your Eminence,

    The Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing refused to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted by Church Councils, the Church Fathers, popes, saints and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston. He denied that everyone needed to be a visible, explicit member of the Catholic Church for salvation with no exceptions. Instead he suggested that there were cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and this was explicitly known to us. He placed restrictions on the priestly faculties of Fr. Leonard Feeney even though the priest was not in heresy. He never corrected the Boston newspapers which reported that the Catholic Church has changed its centuries-old teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He refused to make the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 public for three years and even then would not lift the excommunication placed on Fr. Leonard Feeney for disobedience.

    The same error of Richard Cushing is being made by Eternal Word Television Network(EWTN) in a report its has placed on the internet titled Tragic Errors of Fr. Leonard Feeney.The article by Fr.William Most is also available on EWTN’s website.

    Similarly the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) in the Notification on Fr. Peter Phan has stated that every one needs to enter the Church for salvation except for those in invincible ignorance etc. They are implying that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and that we know explicit cases.

    Wikipedia, the encyclopedia on the Internet makes the same error and this is a false catechesis of Catholics and misinformation about the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    Kindly address this issue and prevent the slander of a good priest who was faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church on extra ecclesiam nulla which Venerable Pope Pius XII referred to as ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching'(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).

    In Christ

    Lionel Andrades
    Catholic layman in Rome.
    E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com
    Blog: http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/

    ROBERT KENNEDY ASKED RICHARD CUSHING TO SUPPRESS FR.LEONARD FEENEY http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/07/robert-kennedy-asked-richard-cushing-to.html

    EWTN REMOVES FR.CORAPI BUT CONTINUES TO TEACH HERESY ON FR.LEONARD FEENEY WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE LOCAL BISHOP
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/ewtn-removes-frcorapi-but-continues-to.html

    USCCB CLARIFICATION IN HERESY?
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/05/usccb-clarification-in-heresy.html#links

    USCCB CONTINUES TO MOCK CATHOLIC FAITH WHILE CDF COMMENT IS AWAITED : FEENEYISM IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE MAGISTERIUM
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/08/usccb-continues-to-mock-catholic-faith.html#links

    TO INTERPRET IMPLICIT FAITH (BAPTISM OF DESIRE ETC) AS REFERRING TO DE FACTO SALVATION WOULD BE HERESY- Don Massimiliano dei Gaspari F.I, Superior and Italian priest in Rome
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-interpret-implicit-faith-baptism-of.html#links

    SECULAR CATECHESIS FOR CATHOLICS : NO ONE OBJECTS IN THE MEDIA
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/secular-catechesis-for-catholics-no-one.html#links

    THE MAGISTERIAL TEXTS, LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949, VATICAN COUNCIL II ETC USE THE DEJURE-DEFACTO LOGIC
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/magisterial-texts-letter-of-holy-office.html

  9. Michael Vorris is not a Good Catholic or a traditional Catholic and his views are not traditional Catholicism. Please join my Facebook group against Real Catholic TV and St. Michael’s Media.

    Catholics should not have the internet TV radio in their homes cars or cellphones, dress modestly, homeschool, keep their tempers, marry early if they marry, and go to Good Priest offering Tridentine Mass if at all possible, though not SSPX schismatic heretics. Michael Vorris doesn’t advocate any of these things as I understand them. He needed to do more private study before setting off on a path which is not truly Catholic.

    And Protestants, heretics, and other schismatics are evil. Read the annotations to the 1610 Douay Rheims, read the Catechism of Trent.

    Much study and effort in seeking good places and people is required these days to be saved, as there are many who teach quite the opposite of John Vianney, whose writings can be found at freecatholicbooks.org. Friends, God gives us all time to find the truth, and assures us in the Baltimore Catechism #3 that he will not accept as an excuse if we waste that time.

  10. Thursday, November 3, 2011
    CATHOLIC HERALD, DAILY TELEGRAPH CENSORSHIP OF THE DOGMA CONTROVERSY: NO ADS ACCEPTED
    The issue is the Eucharist-does every one with no exception need to receive the Eucharist to avoid Hell?

    Does everyone need to receive the Eucharist to avoid Hell? Yes. The Sacraments are needed for all people for salvation. There could be some people in certain conditions and times who cannot receive the Eucharist. However in general this Sacrament is needed for salvation. (John 6).

    Does every one need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water with no exception ?Yes, everyone with no exception.( Vatican Council II, Dominus Iesus, Council of Trent, Council of Florence etc).

    The Eucharist is only given to those who have received the Sacrament of baptism and the other necessary Sacraments. Non Catholics and Catholics in mortal sin are not given the Eucharist. They are on the way to Hell if they die immediately.

    This teaching was not accepted by the Staff of the Catholic Herald, U.K about the time the pope visited England.It was not even accepted as a paid announcement (Daily Times, U.K). It was a difficult teaching for Damian Thompson, Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a leader writer for the Daily Telegraph.They could not even believe that this was the teaching of the Catholic Church. Now Daphne McLeod, Chairman of Pro Ecclesia et Pontefice, England has said that there can be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and with the baptism of desire and this is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam null salus.

    No one is commenting on her statement at the Catholic Herald or the Daily Telegraph,U.K. It is easier to pretend that non Catholics can be saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and these cases are explicitly known to us and so they contradict the dogma. It is much easier to say that these theoretically acceptable cases are the defacto ordinary means of salvation for all non Catholics. This is no threat to the bank balance.

    The Church has not changed its teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus as Catholics in the media would conveniently like us to believe. If it had changed, it would be changing the Church’s teaching on the Eucharist.

    Daphne McLeod is saying that the Church still teaches as in the 1930’s and 40’s when she was in school, that outside the Church there is no salvation and there is the need of missionaries. This is still the teaching of magisterial texts in Vatican Council II and after Vatican Council II. So the Catholic journalists are denying the Faith and a Catholic dogma and they consider it a virtue, important for peace. Irenicism, is the sin of denying the truth or giving up principles for the sake of peace and survival.-Lionel Andrades

    Photo of Damian Thompson, Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a leader writer for the Daily Telegraph.

    TIMES U.K BLOCKS ‘CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES ROWAN WILLIAMS ON WAY TO HELL’ ADVERTISEMENT

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/times-uk-blocks-catholic-church-teaches.html#links

  11. Tuesday, November 1, 2011
    Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark implies the ‘seeds of the Word’ in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation and these exceptions are explicitly known
    The Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales webite rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II (LG 14, AG 7) and Dominus Iesus.The English bishops are changing the Catholic Church’s teaching on Faith just as they have done so on morals.
    According to Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark who is the Chair of the Committe for Relations with Other Religions the ‘seeds of the Word’ are present in other religions implying that we know of particular cases so every non Catholic with no exception does not have to enter the Church for salvation. This is the rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II (Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7).

    The report placed by the Committee for Relations with Other Religions contradicts Daphne McLeod, Chairman of Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice,England. Her message is that the possible exceptions in Vatican Council II are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(1).

    Vatican Council II does not oppose the centuries-old interpretation of the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.The possibility of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance,the baptism of desire, or the ‘seeds of the Word’ as the Bishops state here, does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which tells us that every one needs to convert into the Church for salvation. It is understood that these cases, saved by the ‘seeds of the Word’ are known only to God.

    Non Catholic religions are not paths to salvation and their members need to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II. This is the important point omitted by the Catholic Bishops Conference.Daphne McLeod is affirming the dogma which Pope Pius XII called ‘the infallible teaching’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949).

    This was the interpretation of the Church Fathers, it was defined at three Church Councils, repeated in the ordinary magisterium of the popes, taught by numerous saints and included in Vatican Council II (LG 14, AG 7).

    The website says ‘As Catholics we believe that Christ lived,died and rose from the dead for all people and that God’s plan of love embraces the whole of creation.’ This is a contradiction of Dominus Iesus 20 which says Jesus died for all, however to receive this salvation all need to enter the Church.

    The website says ‘We can joyfully accept ,as was recognized by the Fathers of the Church, that other religions contain elements of truth that we find in Christ.’ Dominus Iesus mentions that other religions also contain ‘errors, deficiences and superstition’, which we cannot attribute to Christ or the Holy Sprit.

    Also the Church Fathers no where said that non Catholic religions are the ordinary means of salvation. The ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Church (Redemptoris Missio 55). Vatican Council II indicates that the ordinary means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (LG 14, AG 7).It is not ‘the seeds of the Word’.

    The English bishops are denying an ex cathedra dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 which Venerable Pope Pius XII called an ‘infallible teaching’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). They are also rejecting Vatican Council II (LG 14, AG 7) and assuming that the hypothetical exceptions that we accept in principle, are defacto known to us and so contradict a traditional teaching of the Church. They are also implying that the ‘seeds of the Word’ found in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation.

    The English bishops are changing the Catholic Church’s teaching on Faith just as they have done so on morals.(2).

    Pope John Paul II’s encyclical on morals, Veritatis Splendor, says that an intrinsically evil act is always a mortal sin, even if one suggests that the person is not aware of the sin. Veritatis Splendor is clear that there is no ‘invincible doubt’. Also rationally we know that we cannot judge who has an ‘invincible doubt’.Veritatis Splendor says that the exterior action indicates the interior intention.It calls mortal sin a mortal sin.
    The bishops are now suggesting that we know who is saved with the ‘seeds of the Word’. A possible exception known only to God is made the general rule.-Lionel Andrades

    1.
    As Catholics we believe that Christ lived, died and rose from the dead for all people and thatGod’s plan of love embraces the whole of creation. We can joyfully accept ,as was recognized by the Fathers of the Church,that other religions contain elements of truth that we find in Christ.The Fathers of the Church called these elements “seeds of the Word”.The Vatican Council II attributed the positive values present in other religious traditons to the actibe presence of God through through his Word,pointing also to the universal action of the Spirit “at work in the world before Christ was glorified”.(Ad Gentes n.4).-Catholics and Other Faiths report on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales.
    2.
    14. Homosexuals have the same need for the Sacraments as the heterosexual. They also have the same right to receive the Sacraments. In determining whether or not to administer Absolution or give Communion to a homosexual, a pastor must be guided by the general principles of fundamental theology, that only a certain moral obligation may be imposed. An invincible doubt, whether of law or fact, permits one to follow a true and solidly ‘probable opinion’ in favour of a more liberal interpretation. – According to the Archdiocese of Westminister Soho Mass Pastoral Council announcement on the Internet

    SOHO MASS – CONTRADICTS CATECHISM AND VERITATIS SPLENDOR

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2009/10/soho-mass-two-different-moral-and.html#links

    NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html

  12. Tuesday, November 22, 2011
    CATHOLIC BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS THOSE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE VISIBLE TO US
    Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated it is suggested for repeating the same teaching of the popes, Councils, saints and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus thrice-defined.

    The Bishops Conference of England and Wales has placed the book Muslims Ask, Christian answer in the section Resources, on its website. (Dialogue With Other Religions/Committee for Relations with other Other Religions). This book by the Jesuit Christian Troll interprets Vatican Council II (LG 16) as referring to cases of invincible ignorance being explicit and known to us. LG 16 contradicts the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/bishops-conference-of-england-and-wales.html

    It means every one needs to enter the Church for salvation in the present times but there could be exceptions like those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16). Cases of those saved in invincible ignorance it is assumed are visible to us and so they are an exception to the dogma.The dogma indicates everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the church to go to Heaven.

    If those saved in invincible ignorance were implicit for the English bishops it would not contradict the dogma.It would not be an exception. Since it is allegedly explicitly known, it is an exception to the dogma.

    So in inter religious dialogue it is assumed by the CBCEW that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us in the present times.Those who have not had the Gsopel preached to them through no fault of their own and are saved are known to us in the present time ?!

    In another report on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales titled Catholics and Other Faiths the error is repeated. Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark who is the Chair of the Committe for Relations with Other Religions states that the ‘seeds of the Word’ are present in other religions(1).Theoretically, as a possibility this is acceptable. However the bishop is implying that we know of particular cases so every non Catholic with no exception does not have to enter the Church for salvation.He is implying that this is an exception to the dogma.This is the rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II (Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7).

    Similarly the Vocation Director of Southwark, England Fr. Stephen Langley has said that candidates with a religious vocation to the diocese would have to accept the doctrine extra ecclesiam nulla salus but the doctrine should not be interpreted in ‘the narrow Feenyite sense’.

    Young Catholics in England would have to say that everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation in the present times but there could be defacto exceptions like those saved with the baptism of desire. The baptism of desire is assumed to be visible and so is an exception to the dogma.The dogma indicates everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the church to go to Heaven.

    If the baptism of desire was implicit for candidates it would not contradict the dogma, it would not be an exception. Since it is allegedly explicitly known, it is an exception to the dogma. Candidates with a religious vocation would be accepted who presumably could ‘spot’ these rare exceptional cases.Those who cannot do so will not be able to priests and nuns.

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/vocation-director-in-southwarkengland.html

    The Vocation Director at Southwark also has implied that the Catholic Church has condemned the ‘narrow Feenyite sense’. However there is no ‘condemnation’ mentioned in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office referred to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible statement’. The dogma like the popes, Church Councils and saints indicate that all non Catholics in Boston,USA need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell. This was exactly the teaching of Fr. Leonard Feeney who was not excommunicated for heresy but for disobedience. The excommunication was lifted by the Church without him having to recant.

    So candidates with a religious vocation in England would have to accept also that Fr. Leonard Feeney was ‘condemned’ for holding the same view as the popes, including Pope Pius XII, who referred to ‘the dogma’, the saints and the dogma itself.

    This is the teaching of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales in inter faith dialogue, for candidates with religious vocations and at the Catholic seminaries in Rome like the English and Beda College.

    This new visible baptism of desire doctrine contradicts magisterial documents.It is also irrational. (a) No one knows of a particular case of someone being saved with the baptism of desire and (b) Fr.Leonard Feeney was not excommunicated for repeating the same teaching of the popes, Councils, saints and the thrice-defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
    -Lionel Andrades

    1.
    As Catholics we believe that Christ lived, died and rose from the dead for all people and thatGod’s plan of love embraces the whole of creation. We can joyfully accept ,as was recognized by the Fathers of the Church,that other religions contain elements of truth that we find in Christ.The Fathers of the Church called these elements “seeds of the Word”.The Vatican Council II attributed the positive values present in other religious traditons to the actibe presence of God through through his Word,pointing also to the universal action of the Spirit “at work in the world before Christ was glorified”.(Ad Gentes n.4).-Catholics and Other Faiths report on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales

    BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS LUMEN GENTIUM 16 REFERS TO EXPLICITLY KNOWN CASES OF NON CATHOLIC SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/bishops-conference-of-england-and-wales.html

    Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark implies the ‘seeds of the Word’ in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation and these exceptions are explicitly known
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/archbishop-emeritus-kevin-mcdonald-of.html

    NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html

    CATHOLIC HERALD, DAILY TELEGRAPH CENSORSHIP OF THE DOGMA CONTROVERSY: NO ADS ACCEPTED

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-herald-daily-telegraph.html

  13. Friday, December 2, 2011
    THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 SAYS NON CATHOLIC RELIGIONS ARE NOT PATHS TO SALVATION:OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
    With these wise words he reproves those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, , in , n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, , in , n. 1677).-Letter of the Holy Office 1949

    According to the Catholic Church non Catholics religions are not the ordinary means of salvation. Also there is no known case in the present time of a non Catholic being saved in other religions with the baptism of desire. There is the possibility of a non Catholic being saved with the baptism of desire but we cannot meet or phone such a case on earth.

    The Letter indicates that it is false to assert that men can be saved equally well in Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islamism, the Christian Schismatic religion and Protestant heretical communities. All their members with no exception on earth need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell).

    ‘With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire’ states the Letter. It means a person can be saved with the baptism of desire in principle. The Letter is not implying that we know any defacto cases on earth. The Letter does not say that this possibility known only to God, is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441).

    So the Letter does not support the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing who along with the Jesuits of Boston College suggested that the baptism of desire was an exception to the dogma and to Fr.Leonard Feeney’s interpretation.They wanted another interpretation of the dogma which would say that every one needs to enter the Church for salvation except for those with the baptism of desire etc. The centuries-old interpretation was criticized by the secular media as the ‘rigorist interpretation’.They assumed that a defined dogma could change its meaning over time.

    Fr.Leonard Feeney said that every non Catholic needs to enter the Church for salvation and there were no defacto exceptions like the baptism of desire. Common sense tells us that we do not know any case of a person saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance and so they do not contradict the dogma.

    Years later Vatican Council II would follow and assert the same message in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 knowing that those saved in invincible ignorance (Lumen Gentium 16) are known only to God and unknown to us.

    The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 also refers to ‘the dogma’, ‘the infallible statement’. The dogma indicates that non Catholic religions are not paths to salvation and their members need to convert into the Catholic Church.

    For salvation members of non Catholic religions ‘are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.’

    The Letter is referring to all non Catholics and not just those who know about the Church as opposed to those in invincible ignorance. In principle, we know that only those who know about the Church and do not enter are on the way to Hell (Also see Ad Gentes 7).However these cases are judged only by God. So it is not an exception, in the present time, to the teaching of the Letter of the Holy Office or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus that all the members of non Catholic religions need to enter the Church for salvation.

    -Lionel Andrades

  14. Thursday, December 1, 2011
    INDIVIDUAL PROTESTANTS DO GO TO HELL UNLESS THEY CONVERT INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
    Individual Protestants do go to Hell and cannot go to Heaven unless they convert into the Catholic Church is the teaching of the Church.

    On Real Catholic TV Michael Vorris says “Individual Protestants (0.32).go to Hell and cannot go to Heaven this is not what we are saying. I do not know if I am going to Heaven or Hell. How do I know the destiny of anyone else. Protestantism is a heresy.’
    We know all individual Protestants are oriented to Hell (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence).Vatican Council II has the same teaching.

    Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church’s preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself “by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7(emphasis added)

    The Church teaches that all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water- all Protestants.

    So all Protestants on earth de facto need to enter the Church to avoid Hell.

    The Church also teaches that there can be some non Catholics who can be saved in invincible ignorance. These cases are unknown to us on earth. It is only God who can decide who is in invincible ignorance. So this teaching is not an exception to the dogma or Ad Gentes 7.
    All non Catholics, Protestants included need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.
    -Lionel Andrades


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