Pope Francis names Jews the “Big Brothers” of Roman Catholics. How can that be, since the Jews remain solidly anti Jesus Christ, who by virtue of our Baptism, is truly our “Big Brother” in faith?

Stoning_Saint_Stephen

The Jews stoning Saint Stephen
Our authentic “Big Brother” can be seen enthroned in Heaven above

“We renew our closeness and solidarity to the Jewish people, our big brothers, and pray to God that the memory of the past and of the sins of the past helps us to be always vigilant against every form of hate and intolerance,” Francis told thousands in St. Peter’s Square in his Sunday mass.

Link

Editor’s note: To shed some badly needed light on this subject, we have a short excerpt from the venerable Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture regarding 1st John 19-29 and those who deny that Jesus Christ is the Messiah:

During this period truth and error concerning the person of Jesus Christ will be disseminated, the former by authorized apostles, the latter by false teachers.

19. It is a cause of great distress to the beloved disciple that these teachers of error were once members of the Church. 20. In contrast to these apostates are those ‘who have the unction from the Holy One’, i.e. from Christ, whose name signifies ‘the Anointed One’, and who in baptism anointed them with sanctifying grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and enlightened them.

22. Who is the liar’. The falsehood of Antichrist is the denial that Jesus is the Messias, i.e. the Anointed One, and that he is the Son of God.

23. Anyone who denies the eternal generation of the Son from the Father, ‘hath not the Father’, i.e. has no fellowship with him.

26-29. There is reason for warning them against false seducers. Not that they need explicit instruction in the matter. They have received the unction of the Holy Spirit who will enlighten them concerning what they must know. His teachings are the truth, without any admixture of falsehood. Let them hold fast, therefore, to the faith which he imparted to them. Thus they will be able to meet their Judge with confidence; for he judges justly and approves those who lead good lives.

*****

In short, since we Christians became adopted children of God at Baptism, Jesus Christ is our “Big Brother” – not “the Jews”. This prurient papal patronizing of the Jews constitutes political correctness and modern-day Masonic apostasy run amok. According to the Catholic Catechism, the Jews do not even qualify as legitimate “People of God” – let alone as “Big Brothers” of any Catholic Christian.

The authentic Catholic truth of the matter

…It is a fact patent for all to see, that, in the world as it exists, the Jews, as an organised nation, refuse to accept Him Who is the Cornerstone of the building and the Foundation of right order, and look forward to a messianic era to be ushered in by another messias. Do they not proclaim this from the house tops?

Klausner, Professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, in his book, Jesus of Nazareth, writes as follows: “What is Jesus to the Jewish nation at the present day? To the Jewish nation he can be neither God nor the Son of God, in the sense conveyed by belief in the Trinity. Either conception is to the Jew not only impious and blasphemous, but incomprehensible. Neither can he, to the Jewish nation, be the Messiah: the kingdom of Heaven (the ‘Days of the Messiah’) is not yet come . . . [The ethical code of Jesus] is no ethical code for the nations and social order of today, when men are still trying to find the way to that future of the Messiah and the Prophets, and to the ‘kingdom of the Almighty’ spoken of by the Talmud, an ideal which is of this ‘world’ and which, gradually and in the course of generations, is to take shape in this world.”

Additional note: This last line pretty much defines the popular apostasy of the day – “The New World Order” – an order with man – instead of Jesus Christ – as head and King. This IS the definition of Anti-Christ – and our last few popes – including Francis – appear to have swallowed the lie, whole and complete!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
(1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
(2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(9) [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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50 Comments

  1. Maybe Pope Francis intended “big brothers” to refer to the Jews running the State of Israel, who are provided by the NSA with all the raw data from the NSA’s surveillance of all Americans.

    • Mark
      Please read my Comment to Doug!

  2. Doug,
    I have stated 1 John 2:22, Many times, and as far as, 2 Thes 2, just a back-up to, 1 John.
    My friends, welcome to the Great Apostasy, and keep vigilant , we are now, seeing before our eyes : The New Tower Of Babel/The New World Order!
    Humanism, that takes the place, of Christ….Babel = A New Portal(Way) to God, where Christ is not needed, so ALL False Religions, can now participate!
    I believe, with all my body, soul, and spirit…..This Is Truth!
    People, may say, I am some kind of zealot, or even crazy, but I want to be a Warner, to The Elect….that soon a False Prophet will come. And all will believe his False Lie and Doctrines of Demons!
    I believe this TIME IS NOW!
    EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE LOVES FRANCIS and what he is ACCEPTING and PROCLAIMING, acting like God, things that are CONTRARY to GOD….What does that make him?

    • I know not the day nor the hour. Ergo, your opinion is at least as credible—if not more so—than any opposite viewpoint. Suffice it to say for now that we’re both mighty unhappy and appalled by the current pope, his utterings and his apparent policies. And we are far from alone, in that regard.

      All the Francis fan-boys and -girls really need a clue!

      • My family are Fan Girls and Fan-Boys! They think Francis, is the Answer!……Makes my blood boil! Maybe, they need to think about the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ!

  3. The words quoted by Francis above:

    We renew our closeness and solidarity to the Jewish people, our big brothers, and pray to God that the memory of the past and of the sins of the past helps us to be always vigilant against every form of hate and intolerance

    Are inspirational and totally correct! How anybody can find error in them is lamentable! Whatever next? Christs’ beatitudes are in error! The Golden Rule of Doing to others in error? Ridiculous!
    The renewal of solidarity and closeness to the Jewish people is because we understand that they are our brothers because Jesus, like St Peter and ALL the first Christians and the People of God were in fact Jews.
    Some ignorant and stupid people attest that Jesus w
    as a Catholic and not a jew! Bizarre!!
    The Jews are our big brothers and we are their younger brothers both in RELIGION and FAITH and in Humanity. The Catholic Christian World grew from the Jewish one. Period!
    So what past sins does the Pope refer to?
    Well these are surely the sins of Christians that failed to love the Jews properly and intimidated, humiliated and murdered many in the name of the Christ! The sins historical in the Church – let alone from the Holocaust – are not something we shall boast of before the Throne of Mercy!
    That is why we must be vigilant against hate of the Jews and the satanic lie that they are sub-species or not human. We must be vigilant in the Church also because Scripture is constantly abused and spouted as if it proves our fears correct! We shall not forget that Lucifer himself spouts Scripture to Our Lord in the Desert when he tempts him.
    So Well done Pope Francis! You are correct as always and Long may you show us how to be inspired by grace instead of rejecting it.

    • Scampy22
      The Roman Catholic Church has much apologizing to do the Jews, for what they have DONE, in Christs Name!!!!
      Agreed, Jesus was a Jew and the First Christians were Jews!
      The Chosen People of God, in the OT, will NEVER see Eternal Life, until they see Jesus of Nazereth, as the Messiah, Son of God!
      It Is Written!
      Gods Word Is Truth!

      • The first Christians USED TO BE Jews!

        For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man’s covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
        (Galatians 3:10-29)

        Pope Francis and the rest of the post-Vatican II Catholic Church hierarchy must have (somehow) missed all of the above verses.

        Doug

      • Doug,
        I am not a Theologian or Teacher, and I am Familiar with this Verse!
        Thanks for bringing it up! 🙂
        A lot of ppl believe in Replacement Theology—Where the Church replaces the Jews, as the Chosen People. There are Jews, leaving to become Believers in Christ….over 300 Prophecies in the OT, pointing to Jesus as the Messiah….why do the Jews reject, Christ???

      • What is often crudely and incorrectly termed “replacement theology” is a settled doctrine of the Catholic Church, based on the scriptures. The Church is the new, spiritual Israel, fulfilled, sanctified and justified in the blood of Jesus Christ. Whatever happens to the earthly version of Israel – or anyone else on earth – matters little, without their full acceptance of Jesus Christ, his propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world, and his Catholic Church:

        (Matthew 21:42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

        (Matthew 21:43-44) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

        And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

        Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
        (1 Peter 2:5-10)

        This link explains things in detail: http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/01/catholic-church-is-israel.html

        As for the Jews’ blindness and lack of faith:

        Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy REBELLION, and thy STIFF NECK: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt [yourselves], and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
        (Deuteronomy 31:26-29)

        (2 Corinthians 3:13) And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

        (2 Corinthians 3:14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.

        (2 Corinthians 3:15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

        (2 Corinthians 3:16) Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

        I hope this helps.

        Doug

      • Doug,
        Christ makes it very clear, to the Jews, that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life! They have always been Rebelious towards God, even when He delivered them, out of destruction!
        Yes, indeed Christ is the Cornerstone, and he is the High Priest, who did away, with their Levitical Priesthood! Now, we live , under a New Covenant with God, through His SON!
        We can now, RECONCILE, by Faith , in HIS BLOOD, to Have Everlasting Life!!!

      • That is not true Cathy. We know that the Jews in the OT are saved by Christ as a matter of Doctrine.
        Christ reminds the Sadducees that God is a God of the Living and not the dead. Hence he says I am the God of Abraham and Jacob etc because they are living.
        In the Transfiguration he is there with Moses and several OT persons such as Elijah are taken up to Paradise directly.
        The descent by Jesus at Calvary into death into the abode of the dead is to bring these souls to Salvation because they longed for it. Basically Cathy God saves whom ever he wills and we too only attempt to believe but we may hope for salvation.
        It is not written therefore that God only saves the NT people. It is rather implied that God saves many before and I think you will find that the Church understands that good hearted people that have tried to lead lives according to goodness and done no evil are also redeemable.
        Thanks for your observation that Jesus was a jew though!

      • Scampy22
        God has the Almighty Power to Save. He Translated Elijah to Heaven and Resurrected Moses( nothing to bury)…and these 2 Jews, were present at, the Transfiguration!
        After, Christ died, he descended. Into Hell. Do you think, he went their for Salvation of OT believers in God? The One True God…the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob?
        After, the Resurrection, of the Carnate Christ, he who does NOT believe He iS, the Son of God, DOES NOT Have Eternal Life and he Believes, HE IS the Son of God WILL HAVE Eternal Life!!!

      • Abraham, Issac and Jacob were not Jewish. The tribe of Judah did not exist until shortly before the Hebrew sojourn in Egypt. There is also no evidence that ALL of the OT Hebrews or more correctly, Israelites – were collectively saved – just as there is no evidence that ALL NT Christians will be. God does indeed save whomsoever he wills – by the grace of Jesus Christ, on the cross – but God is not stupid or foolhardy. He knows his own, by faith and by their good works, done out of an inspired sense of divine charity. Little of that inspired charism can be found in the Jewish naturalism which permeates today’s culture – something which remains almost totally at odds with authentic Christianity and with the teachings and purposes of our authentic God, King, High Priest and “Big Brother” in faith – Jesus Christ. Which Gospel do you suggest we preach? The true Gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it is written in the sacred scriptures – or the false Gospel of you’re OK, I’m OK, so don’t worry about it?

        Doug

    • All of the stuff mentioned in your comment smacks of liberal guilt and applies to some Jews of certain historical time frames, but not all Jews of all time, collectively. But our present Pope and the Catholic Church of the last fifty years attempts to deceptively paint all of this in the same Masonic shade of red. When a person becomes a Christian through baptism, he is no longer Jew nor Greek, etc., etc., etc., – but a new person in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the key! Jesus Christ is certainly the elder brother of Christians in both grace and in truth, since we Catholics are duly adopted children of God the Father. The Jews however, most certainly are not – and they cannot be – at least at this point in history – since Jews uniformly deny that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, they deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and like their Muslim brothers, they deny that it’s possible for God to even have a son – so they are really and truly ANTI-CHRIST. This mind set is also often reflected in a Jewish world-view, which tends to be the antithesis of Christianity – and especially, Roman Catholicism – particularly when it comes to issues like abortion, homosexuality and big government politics. I specifically detailed these issues in my post on the subject. In light of all these things, I rightly pointed out that Pope Francis’ political statement about the Jews was inaccurate and incorrect, knowing quite well – as I’m sure he does – that a doctrinal statement with the same content, would have been a material heresy, easily disproved by settled church teachings on the matter, including the fact that Jews are not included in the official church definition of “The People of God”. “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 1:7-11) Now, who is actually correct about all this – the sacred scriptures – or the post-Vatican II popes?

      Doug

      • Some vociferous replies!
        But I am left scratching my head because there seems an almost hysterical lack of historical education!!!
        Firstly lets get something right.
        Jesus was a jew! Mary and St Joseph were Jews. The entire promise of a Messiah is Jewish. The angel Gabriel acknowledges Joseph as son of David . .a jew in a Jewish tradition. The first statement is certain. There is no argument from an educated intellectual standpoint to these facts. Jesus and his brethren were all Jewish.
        Indeed whilst he reminds the Samaritan woman at the well of his mission and praised the pagan Roman Centurion, he understood that his mission was firstly directed at the Jews, for the jews, by the Jews. Shocking as it may seem to some people Jesus Worshipped in the Synagogue and had been circumcised according to the laws of Judaism.
        I am sorry to confirm it to you readers but Jesus was a JEW.
        So why do we have separate Christians you may ask?
        Well historically the first believers were Jews. Before the Council of Jerusalem and St Paul they were all jews. Regarded as heretical by Orthodox jews (hence St Pauls treatment of the early Church) they were persecuted.
        After St Paul circumcision was no longer a requirement which must have pleased the gentleman at least. The New Church was however often confused with the Jewish establishment. The Emperor Claudius exiled Christians from Rome because they could not tell the difference between the Christ follower and the Jew orthodox.
        For the next three hundred years the Church (or Christian Churches as there were many varieties of Christian) grew away from Orthodox Judaism because it claimed first that Jesus was divine and secondly Salvation came through belief in him and not (as original christains has supposed) through the following of Judaic laws and observations.
        After Nicene and Constantine and latterly Theodosius, The Empire became dominantly Christian and a new reversal of roles was interplayed. With power came the fight back of Christians to impose Christian citizenship on the populace.
        Through out history this has on occasion resulted in the persecution of Jews by Christains though such violence as pointed out by Post V2 popes is about the Anti-Christ and notr about Gods love!

        So I am afraid that Pope Francis was correct in stating (restating what Benedict 16 had already observed) that the Jews in this sense are our big brothers. They came first and Christianity has grown out of that original seed.
        It does not rewrite the Church opinion on its mission of grace nor does the pope state something which is historically incorrect! Rather he is right to point out that we Christians are founded in the soil of Judiac law and thinking.
        I am sorry if that upsets you guys but I am afraid that we come from Israel, just as latterly in the Roman Church we come from Paganism also. Once before I was forced to remind the reader that in iconography etc the early Christian church owes a lot to paganism but that argument has already been stated once before.
        So please do not forget that Jesus was a Jew and with that central knowledge which is not an excuse or cover up but is actually the truth, representations of the Catholic Church will become easier to appreciate and understand.

      • The fact remains that Jews typically reject Jesus Christ, and refuse to believe that he is who we Catholics know him to be. This was anti-Christ in the 1st century and it remains anti-Christ today. The historical development of Judaism essentially replaces the OT of the Bible with the Talmud – something which only makes things worse. Then we have the various “reformed” Jewish groups which might believe in anything – or nothing at all. Yet in the end, because of the above facts, Jewish sensibilities tend to universally accept and promote abortion, homosexuality, and a diverse collection of masonic, zionist and communist social principles – all of which remain diametrically opposed to authentic Christianity and Catholicism. I find very little there to hold up proudly, in any type of spiritual brotherhood – nor should ANY pope of the Catholic Church. Let’s separate the politics from the faith – for once – and tell it like it is: Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
        (Matthew 10:32-40)

        Doug

      • Doug,
        Right to the heart of the matter,
        This is Truth, not some Frilly Potpourri, of Feel Good Preaching, to Do-Gooders! The question, NOT are you Good, it’s Do you believe in, the Lord, Jesus Christ….and you shall be Saved!

      • Amen!

        Doug

  4. Cathy,
    Thank you for your reply. I try to respond thus;

    God has the Almighty Power to Save. He Translated Elijah to Heaven and Resurrected Moses( nothing to bury)…and these 2 Jews, were present at, the Transfiguration!
    After, Christ died, he descended. Into Hell. Do you think, he went their for Salvation of OT believers in God? The One True God…the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob?

    In being present at Christs Transfiguration we are saying I presume that Elijah and Moses are with him in Paradise? Saved forever?
    His descent into hell was not the hell of damnation. It was the abode of the dead. There is a big difference in understanding and drawing distinct levels between the two. Those that had died and slept in faith awaited Gods salvation and he went for them. As Catholics we might think of a Purgatory situation as similar to the ancient worlds different states of death. Therefore yes These too God would save and as implied earlier above he recognised that Abraham and his just descendants would live like the stars of the heavens . .that is the very angels of light themselves.

    After, the Resurrection, of the Carnate Christ, he who does NOT believe He iS, the Son of God, DOES NOT Have Eternal Life and he Believes, HE IS the Son of God WILL HAVE Eternal Life!!!

    The article quoted misrepresents what the faith has also taught always. Namely that people of good will that have never known Christ may be redeemed by him. Calvary in short redeems all people and anyone that in their heart searches for God is redeemable!
    In the early days of the Christian Church when conversion was something of a daily mission that depended upon Christs imminent return the voice of the Church was as with any early revolutionary movement, strident. Today after years of growth and deeper grace and understanding from 2000 years of Saints etc we understand that the Good Lord loves us more than we know and our salvation is not from his Justice but from his kindly mercy. ie he does not save us because of our faith but because of how the faith is given fruit in deeds.
    In the life of the saints I think we usually find, certainly in recent saints; the courage to welcome all to Christ even if the person was not in the faith. Why? Because they understand that God is not wanting our damnation but our salvation.
    In the life of Padre Pio for example we encounter a kindly Capuchin whom was always ready to welcome all into the fellowship of Paradise. Famously he loved one of his Jewess benefactors so much that when some outwardly over pius people suggested she was not saved when she died because she died a Jew and not a Christian the Saint rounded on them. Reminding them that their own salvation was rather uncertain but that she was now safely in the Gardens of Paradise with Our Lord.
    Such a case is common in many lives of the saints and I always encourage readers to read and meditate and pray to such holy saints of God to give us the courage and wisdom of the faith.
    It is a hard road we travel Cathy but I think we should find it happier to note that many are saved by Our Risen Lord, regardless of what we presume he is capable of or desires. Basically if we become bogged down with judgement and the articles of theological necessities we shall miss the grandeur of Christs mercy.

    • Scampy22
      Jacob aka Israel, gave through his Sons – the 12 Tribes of Israel.
      How much more Jewish is that? Jesus, came from the Tribe of Judah.
      God was consealed in the OT, and He is Revealed in the New Testament! Through our Lord Jesus Christ!
      Christ came to fulfill the Law, not abolish it, until the Last Day….The Moral Law/10 Commandments!

      BTW…..we really don’t know the complexities of the Resting Place before Salvation, of the OT Believers in God….His ways are Higher than ours, as the Prophet Isaiah, would say, so….
      Secrets of God, not for us, to know!
      Like the Mystery of Godlness!!!

      God, does not want to see anyone Perish….that is why he gave us The Great Commision to Spread The Gospel!
      Many Blessings,
      Cathy

      • Doug,
        Your comments are very disturbing! 😛
        Abraham was the founder patriarch of the jewish people! I think that your comments are almost National Socialist in their venom against the First People of God! I really do not know what to say because they are quite frankly “rabid”!!!
        Lets go back to the central notion that Christ our lord and saviour wants us essentially to LOVE.
        What do that mean?
        No I never say anywhere that disregarding sin or overlooking Jesus as our Saviour is acceptable BUT and I am afraid it is a FUNDAMENTAL (a word I dislike but quite frankly cant think of anything else to say here?) Jesus commands us to Love. And the venom against Judaic tradition that ensures the People of God in the OT – the Jews – are disregarded under the guise of a Christian trumpeting their own salvation is abhorrent!
        I really do not know what to say so I will not say anything else on this matter but I shall pray that you drop what seems very deep rooted enmity towards our Big Brothers. But I fear that it does explain a lot of what is at odds with Mother Church and the Papacy.
        Be of Good Cheer Doug and try to love your neighbour.

      • You make unfounded assumptions based on your own personal biases. It may surprise you, but I love the Jewish people, as well as a good number of my personal Jewish friends. I love them enough to tell them the truth – as opposed to the dribble that passes for truth in many of today’s Christian churches.
        And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
        (1 John 3:22-24)
        Nothing I wrote is at odds with the scriptures and the settled teachings of the Catholic Church. Only perhaps, with the novel and unfounded political opinions, masquerading as Catholic truth, of recent years. The Jews are the Chosen People. According to the Church’s own definition, they are not now and have never been the People of God. Big difference! Anyone who fails to preach the Gospel, in season and out, to all, without exception, is a hypocrite and a fraud and the love of God is not in him. There’s a lot of that going around these days!

        Doug

      • I too, love Jewish ppl (my first boyfriend was Jewish!) In fact, my Father had so many Jewish Business acquaintances, they thought he was Jewish, and gave him gifts(the 10 Commandments plaque etc.) They wondered why , he did not join Jewish Organizations:)

        The Gospel of John emphasizes God is Love!
        God So LOVED the World, He gave is only Begotten Son!
        Whoever BELIEVES in Him, HAS EVERLASTING LIFE!
        Hey, the whole NT states, You Must Believe On HIM, to have ETERNAL LIFE!!!
        We cannot “Cherry Pick” our way to Salvation…It is very clear!
        Loving your neighbor, whether or not, they believe ,in Christ, Does not effect, Salvation, it shows your love, as a Christian!
        One of the greatest displays of Love, is telling the Unbeliever the Good News, the Gospel message: Gods Power onto Salvation—to save the LOST!!!

  5. Cathy,
    Your comment to Doug as :
    Right to the heart of the matter, This is Truth, not some Frilly Potpourri, of Feel Good Preaching, to Do-Gooders! The question, NOT are you Good, it’s Do you believe in, the Lord, Jesus Christ….and you shall be Saved!

    I really have no idea what religion or God you worship if that is what you believe? If you do say Lord Lord and go to Church every day, twice! If you say the rosary and if you go to sleep in the sure knowledge of the faith and can work miracles but you are not a Do-gooder or not someone that Loves your neighbour FIRST AND FOREMOST than you are Nothing! Not even the Crashing of Symbols! A useless noise!
    I am at a complete loss to imagine anyone claiming to worship God in Christ without FIRST AND FOREMOST a sense of Love.
    What does Love mean if not Doing Good, acts of Charity and care and not just to our friends or people of the same religion and not doing them either because we think they will get us into Heaven but because they are good in their own right and what we are to do.
    Perhaps I am being unwise but I have rarely read such utter balderdash as in this article and the related comments above that seem to come from some deep rooted phariseen notion of the right faith conquering all?

    Lastly Scripture must be read with the Tradition of the Church which is not a novelty that once was but is an on-going grace. History is itself a study and I must point out as politely as possible that we are constantly learning of the roots and desires of the OT people and what they believed and why.
    Further God was NOT unknown in the OT but was widely Known and worshipped by the Jewish People as the People of God. In the NT the revelation of Jesus is Incarnate to reveal Gods Love and Fulfill Gods plan of Salvation, promised and always looked forward to by OT Jews!!! As you know the 10 Commandments are summed up in two by Jesus both of which are summed up in the revelation of the Gospel which is a revelation of LOVE.
    We do know the mind of God both in OT times which was about Love and in NT times to this very day . .which is also about Love!
    The Good News is that God is Love.

    I hope that explains a little bit of where I come from and let me assure you that I do not preach to do-gooders or imagine Christians as doing good .. anyone can se that we Christians have the ability to turn good to evil and that is about it. But there is of course always Hope for us and so I will end now by restating that good word of Be Good Cheer Cathy.

    • Scampy22
      See my comment to Doug, on God Is Love….in which He is !!!
      No bone , to pick, with you on that!
      Salvation is the question, to Non-Believers, in Christ!

  6. Doug and Cathy.
    Salvation is not based upon the Gospels in words it is based upon the law of love as revealed in the Incarnation. There is the Gospel as it lives a life in the heart of man, a life full of Love.
    Salvation depends upon Love FIRST AND FOREMOST and in the way we choose to Love and allow Love to open our hearts to God.
    I am very glad that you have had Jewish friends and relatives, although if you preach to them that they are denied salvation because of their faith then I am rather surprised!
    There is a breach here that we cannot and simply do not agree on. It is the breach of what we understand by God.
    I think on reading your comments again that you gave the idea that yours or anyone’s salvation is dependent upon following a few simple rules that include believing that God is Salvation and only by belief are you saved? That somehow judgment is given to others because they are non believers and will presumably end up burning in hell fire for all eternity regardless of their lifestyle because they have failed to reason and believe in Jesus Christ as god Revealed? That only salvation is possible through the Teaching of Mother Church and the strict following of certain routes thereby?
    But that is not what I understand about God and indeed I positively reject that idea of God as at best ill informed.
    Rather I see God as a Loving Spirit that delights in Humanity! He has created us to Love him and his Love is such that we are raised by him to be perfect .I reject the narrow minded vision of a school teacher deity with a whip in one hand and a box of chocolate in the other; ready to reward or punish at our slightest error. The notion that God will condemn us for our belief system is not supported by Matthews Last Judgement and I understand that the Gospels are Good News that tell us that God is about Love and desires us to love him and love his creation, our neighbours etc. This means that he is in the traditions of many cultures and although as a catholic I understand that God is Incarnate in Jesus that does not mean that I believe only Catholics or Christians are in Paradise. No I believe that God will redeem anyone of Good will through Calvary and the Resurrection etc but that Hindus, Muslim, Jew etc etc are redeemed also.
    It is obviously that we cannot agree on this matter so I will not add any ore time to this particular debate.
    I wish you both well and thank you for your comments allowing y replies etc. Look after yourselves and be of good cheer.

    • Scampy22,
      Then, you don’t agree with the New Testament?
      You musT think, it is Uninspired, and Not God breathed!
      It sounds like the Scampy22 Gospel!
      This is New Age Thinking! Your ideas are Nice, but not the Word, of our Lord!
      See Galatians 1: 8-9 and some of the verses, surrounding it!
      I will Pray, for you, that you will understand the Faith In The Blood of Christ,,,,He is our Lamb, who gives US LIFE!
      With Much Love,
      Sister in Christ,
      Cathy
      ,

    • From your most recent comments I can begin to understand how the world has gotten so fouled up, as of late. Jesus clearly defined the meaning of love for us in the Gospel of Saint John. Please read this verse from the inerrant, Holy Spirit inspired written Word of God with due diligence. It will never go out of style or become obsolete: I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
      (John 15:1-14)

      The original apostles had no compunction against giving up their lives while preaching the simple yet authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ to all, without reservation and their efforts shortly led to the conversion of most of the known world for Jesus Christ, which also soon reformed the world, in the image of Heaven. Today’s prelates preach a different, watered down Gospel, to carefully selected audiences, at little or no personal risk, hoping not to offend them with God’s the true message of salvation – and the result is just the opposite: widespread apostasy, corruption, moral decay and a pronounced darkening of the world and all that is in it – including the Catholic Church itself. This is “the smoke of Satan” mentioned by Pope Paul VI and since then, things have only become worse. So I hope you will excuse me if I find it difficult to be of good cheer, when I see our newly elected, arrogantly humble pope embrace the failed and ineffective policies of his recent predecessors, which are based not on God’s grace and truth, but on man’s faulty reasoning and pride. Jesus made things very simple: “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.”

      Doug

      • Doug,
        I see a diminution of Jesus Christ, in which He is demoted, to allow False Religions to prosper. This can ONLY be the work of Satan, confusing the people! Humanism, is the belief, for so many, to be Modern. Hey, there is no Hell and we all have a “Soul Sleep!” OR We ALL go to Heaven ( Collective Salvation!)
        The only Way to the Father…IS Through the SON!
        Christ is our ONLY way, for us to Reconcile, with a Holy God!
        He is the Vine, and we are the branches and those that don’t believe………
        We NEED Christ!!!

      • I totally agree. Now what?

        Doug

  7. Doug and Cathy.
    I do not say and have not said that Salvation is outside of Christ! Please read and do not assume you have read what I say or what the Catholic Church says in V2.
    Let me restate it here briefly.
    Yes you or anyone is saved by Christ. period. But that Salvation is not automatically given to the people who say Lord Lord but to the people that Love God and do his will. That Catholics, other Christians and then Other faith people of good will that earnestly seek God are acceptable to him and may be redeemed by the Christ. That is the Gospel Good news and is borne out in the lives of many modern Saints etc.
    Perhaps the reading of their lives, people such as Faustina or Bosco, Pio or any recent Saint will encourage you both to replace fears with Love.
    I hope that you find them beneficial?

    Doug’
    The trouble with quoting Scripture is that we often forget the stage it was given upon. For example in your claim of the Gospel reading such as the claim by Jesus if taken fundamentality as suggested above that we should cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes rather than sin is utterly mad. Bizarre is not the word but if we simply state that it says this in Scripture than we fail to appreciate the wealth of History and its complexities.
    The idea or excuse often given that we simply cannot know or understand how or in what context a verse is made is to be challenged as wrong. Also the idea that we are picking and choosing should not go untested as that is what we do whenever read the Scriptures. It is to be encouraged as if we arrive at a library and ask questions on physics we shall not be directed to the Agriculture section!
    Lastly Doug I am sorry that you do not feel you can be of Good Cheer. Although you should have understood that like Bosco, Faustina, Pio or many modern Saints the term of “Be of good cheer” is a request to be full of Hope and happy in the faith. The fact that you have not taken it well makes me a little sad because it is not the Spirit of Hope that I read in your somewhat aggressive response but the spirit of conflict and dismay.
    Finally let me assure you that Britain is not some backwater and unlike Ohio . . .is a lot more Christian than expected. Also within 60 miles of London I wonder how near Cleveland is to New York or LA (the only US cities that have any hope of Competing against the multi-culture of the UK Capital) Whilst America holds something like 300 million people, the UK holds 65 millions. But of course the UK fits into texas over 4 times so Britain is vastly more populated than the US and so I laugh at the wanton arrogance so often displayed by Americans that think they are the world!
    Very disappointing.

    Cathy,
    Glad that you are praying for me. Though I am reminded somewhat of Gladys Cooper in The Song Of Bernadette . .wherein she snarls over the girl and offers to pray for her soul that is in obvious danger of damnation? The point in the film is that the sadistic cruel nun is the one that needs the prayers.
    I think that you and Doug should profit from trying to see the world in terms of Love and not Judgement. Love and not religion and Love and not holier than thou service.
    My prayers for you always.
    Scampy22

    • Scampy22,
      Listen, do you think, perhaps “The most loved Mortal Man, in the World” the late John Paul II, may have experienced a Sulphur/Phosphurus Inhale Attack, when proclaimed “Universal Salvation?”
      The “Divine Word” in which the original Apostles spoke, SAID Christ was the ONLY WAY to Salvation! Belieth in Him, not because you Loved Mohamed! Or Mo’s Traditions, of a False god!
      Sorry, the Holy Scriptures, SCREAM OUT ……. Christ Jesus…ONLY!

      • SO, how could you say, Salvation is ONLY from Christ!
        You have left MANY Avenues, for Salvation, by just LOVE!
        God is LOVE, but He is a Jealous God, who wants to be worshipped in Truth and in Spirit!
        Even the Righteousness of God is by Jesus Christ Our Lord.
        There is NO OTHER way to Reconcile, to an All Holy God, except through the Blood of the Son, who redeems us!

    • If you attended Mass last Sunday – and the homily was properly planned and delivered – you should have learned about the 4 Last Things – Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell (maybe with a bit of Purgatory thrown in, for good measure.) Anyone in a state of grace when they die has no worries about God’s judgment – and that – the proper care of SOULS – is and always has been JOB #1 – the main concern of the Catholic Church. This is an unchangeable doctrine of the Catholic Church, preached by all the apostles and their successors, right up until about 1965. After that, things became very muddled. I know God didn’t change, so that means the Church must have changed. But settled Catholic doctrine cannot change. So we have a problem! Who do you trust, for your eternal salvation? Jesus Christ, plus 19 centuries of traditional, faithful believers, plus the apostles, plus all their successors (up until the mid 1960’s) plus the plain, simple, unadulterated, practical and logical meaning of all the sacred scriptures, plus the testimony of every saint and martyr – or the revisionist clergymen who currently run the modern day Catholic (reformed) Church?

      Thank you for your comments. They are always appreciated.

      Doug

      • Doug,
        I do not agree that the Church has changed and forgotten, dropped or ignored the sacred truths of the Past.
        I believe that it continues to stride towards the truth and since Vatican 2 (circa 1960s) and the documents of the council it has shown again and again that Christ is alive and lives in his Church, leading it on.
        IF I accepted your proposition that the Church had abandoned the historical mission and truths of the earlier (pre V2 Church) Church than I would gladly join or refound a new Catholic or Protestant Church.
        The same argument was levelled with some truth (though not the whole truth you understand) at the height of the Reformation when the Catholic Church was or had sometimes behaved like a harlot! The Reformation however failed to appreciate that Christ was still in his Church and despite the reformers correct in their understanding that the Church needed reforming to update it the Church was still the bride of Christ.
        I accept that in the 19th century for example the Catholic Church held many truths still but that good Christians were also in many other churches and the world benefitted from many Christians service.
        I understand therefore that Vatican 2 was an on going process. That the popes and the Bishops ie the authority of the Church militant has accepted the will of Vatican 2 and come to terms with that Council and its reports and statements.
        I do not accept therefore that any Catholic can today reject the Authority of the Hierarchy or the Council. The Council has challenged us all to find God in new ways and I reject the notion along with the Authority of the Church suggestions that the Church is in error in following the Council.
        Quite frankly and rather humanly perhaps? I regard those that refuse to bend before the Pope, the Magisterium or the Authority of Mother Church and its desire of the council as anathema.
        The fact that renegade bishops in France felt they could not accept the council whilst still professing their Catholic faith is abhorrent to most Catholics today. It is akin to Judas suggesting he acted in the interests of Christ and was still a loyal Apostle! Treason is Treason and a traitor is a traitor . . .
        I know that sounds rather strict and maybe over-the-top for a Christian but that is what I think when I hear of organisations (you know the ones I refer to) that refuse to bow before the papal crown or its authority and presume themselves Catholic! Even the Reformers had the guts to break with the Roman Church!
        You will be aware that I am very influenced by Padre Pio as a saint and kindly capuchin. He was himself surprised by many reforms although he also was very liberal for his day. He however constantly became angry when people assumed unto themselves rights that allowed them to contradict or split (even leave the order as his sister pia) from the Church, He was furious that many even with good intentions thought they could step back from the Church and treat it as a candy shop to pick and choose. He constantly rebuked such attitudes and warned many of sin and the hidden work of the devil. My point is therefore along the lines that such Bishops that have led the faithful in some cases astray or away or allowed them to bark at the teaching of the Church as a candy store under the banner that they are in some ways OK to do so . .because the Church is universal is a lie.
        Such wicked bishops are in peril of their souls and the tragedy is that many that follow them are led into darkness and the death of sin just as Satan led many of the angels into hell in the first rebellion against God and his vision of Mother Church.
        I restate in Faith that Christ is in his post V2 Church and the Church remains faithful to its doctrine. This is despite the objections that I may have personally about this or that or the bad individuals that have brought scandal and shame upon a public Church and blurred its mission of redemption.
        I therefore do not understand or accept the notion pre-posed that the Catholic Church is in some kind of mess brought about by bad individuals because I see the wicked as more prone to be the haters and objection-raising anti clerical individuals outside the Church. I believe that we are and have great and holy men of God leading our Church in recent years and they are therefore Shepherds that light the way to God for us.
        I hope that explains and answers some of your questions raised here above.
        Be of Good cheer Doug . . . God loves us and we are united in that comment I trust.

      • Despite all the rhetoric I stick with the motto of my site, which states: “God loves you. God will provide. Relax!” Adopting that attitude is often helpful, since unnecessary tension leads many to distraction – and being distracted, they fail to hear God’s voice, or notice his many loving signs and interventions. The flip side of paying attention to these types of things, in faith, is that you are pretty much obligated to act on what you prayerfully discern. I speak of this from personal experience. If there’s one thing that should be perfectly clear today, it’s that blind obedience in the face of rampant and widespread corruption empowers evil within the church. Jesus didn’t stand for that kind of behavior when he walked the earth and I doubt he expects us to stand for it now. So it’s to the whip and the scourge for me – at least, for now! I’m overturning the tables in the temple and this website is my cat o nine tails. The Church Militant, which was cleverly, totally expunged from the post-Vatican II Catholic Catechism – is back – and I’m it! Now – God willing – the bad guys are going to get publicly exposed and their errors held up to the truth! Saint Francis himself did nothing less. Have you forgotten the significance and meaning of your Confirmation?.

        Doug

  8. Cathy,
    God is Love!
    That statement should explain everything to you. Stop being fearful of the words and notion that belief is all important. God is Love. That statement should explain why I suggest that Salvation comes about because of Love, in Love and Through Love.
    God is Love.
    Sorry about the rhetoric but it is simply all important to being a Christian to understand that simple yet disputed truth.
    I suggest (I think along with the Universal Church) that God in Christ redeems Mankind, ie the World and he does this BECAUSE of Love. It is not something to fear nor is something to suppose that Catholics or anyone else has a Monopoly upon. God Saves us because of his Love.
    Basically Anyone Anywhere at ANYTIME is redeemed by Christ if they accept Love from him. The Father desires Our Salvation over all other considerations.
    What that means is no matter what we have done, do or will do it is all less than his Love. The Good news of Salvation, is that it is Universal. The News of the Gospels has not changed. The Apostles proclaim the obvious fact that Christ redeems us all but they do not proclaim that others are lost. Rather that God so Loved the World he gave his only so to redeem it which he has done in the person of Jesus and through the grace of the Holy Spirit.
    When a soul rejects Love then they distance themselves from his grace. Whilst yet they live Hope means they can return to God. Yet it is and always has been a truth that many souls are redeemed by Grace even when circumstances or even the law seemed to suggest otherwise.
    God is love and that is the greatest truth of the faith and the greatest hope that faith can reveal to the soul. That is why the Church universal has always and does now proclaim this greatest truth.
    The great John Paul 2 proclaimed Gods love universally and that is why the Church sees in him heroic virtue and sanctified grace.

    I do not think I have suggested many avenues to salvation as you suggest. I restate above the Christian Churchs understanding and I do again here. The ability or desire to be a Christian is a good one but it is not a monopoly and God will not at the final judgement (according to Matthews account and the only one given in the Gospels) ask us for our creed but for the acts of Love we performed, our good works. And it is upon these that Our Eternal Salvation will depend and like Matthews warning to us we better be prepared to have shown we loved and acted upon that love rather than twitter on the notion of but when did we see you etc?
    The statement is clear and the implication for us all dynamic. Love is the final arbitrator and if we love then we will be saved.
    Hope that kinda helps show what I was thinking when I replied etc earlier.

    • Scampy22
      Anytime, Anyplace, Anyone….
      Redeemed in Christ, through Him….IF THEY RECEIVE LOVE FROM HIM!
      So, Just because GOD IS LOVE!
      How about Hitler Lennon, Sadam Hussein……..
      You are quite charitable, on your Universal Salvation!
      Do you believe in Hell?
      The Gospels say, we MustLove Him, Our Saviour & Lord!
      God has known us, before we were in our Mother’s Womb, or before the Foundations of the Earth. He knows, who He will save!

      The Atheist, does not believe he needs a Saviour.
      When he dies, whether or not, he loved….he believes Death Is The End!
      I am not going into every false religion, and their view of Death.
      I have one question, for you?
      Why are you a Roman Catholic? Why bother with Ritual and Ceremony and partake in the Sacraments? It sounds like too much work, for a God, that will Save you anyway! Hey, just go and help an Old Lady cross the street, with Love in your heart! 🙂

      • Cathy,
        When an atheist once said to Padre Pio “I don’t believe in God” the Capuchin smiled at him and replied “But God believes in you”.

        You know the point about Love is more than simply saying prayers or partaking of sacraments. It is about compassion and care of your neighbour. So Why am I a Catholic?
        Well firstly I was brought up in the faith in a family. I have come to understand the Catholic Church is true and I have faith which is not something I deserve or have found in books etc but is given to me by God as a Gift. By Gods grace I have grown to Love the Christ which is more than I deserve but I understand that God is pleased by it. He has allowed me a certain intellect and a certain wisdom that allows me to see him in my neighbour.
        In the Narnia tales, CS Lewis presented the character of Jesus in the style of a Lion. Azlan admits that he has many names and Lewis was showing that God has many appearances and forms but essentially we can recognise him by his nature, his goodness and his great mercy.
        Like Lewis I understand along with the Catholic Church that I am proud to be a member of (despite wicked breakaway Churches that ensnare the faithful in diabolical disobedience to the Pope and the Bishops in authority) the human race and I understand that God saves us often regardless of our own natures or lack of graciousness.
        In the lives of the Saints, for example Vianney we often have tales where the Saint admitted such and such a person was Saved by Christ even if they were non Catholics and did not attend Mass etc. Remarkable for a mid 19 century cleric we may suppose but the Cure was holy and a friend of Jesus Christ and by no means unique in the lives of the Saints.

        Therefore, Ritual and ceremony are impressive and we may like them on a personal level but in themselves they will not save us! helping old ladies across the street will also not necessarily save us BUT the ceremony and ritual WITHOUT helping little old ladies or as Scripture says without care and help for widows and orphans will certainly NOT save us!
        I do not anywhere suggest that God will save you no matter what? God is Just and even mercy must imply Justice. That is certain indeed God is not Good if he is not Just. Justice is the supreme virtue of Goodness and nothing good can lack Justice.
        My point is however that if we only consider Justice then none of us will be saved! That is because we are not good and rather only capable of turning good into evil. Basically if we get what we deserve then we are in BIG trouble! That is why the Litany says “Do not consider what we truly deserve . . .”
        The Good news of the Gospel is that God is Love and desires Our Salvation. For this he became incarnate.
        This means that in faith we can HOPE for his mercy and his love to redeem us, We are not certain of it because we do not deserve it but we can Hope for it Always. . so I hope that you do too?
        As for Hitler and Stalin etc well if you continue to reject Grace all your life and live in wickedness, bad and evil then at death you shall surely fly from grace that redeems.
        I have no idea what happened to their souls, I suspect they are damned but that is my personal thinking and nothing to do with what the Church says or otherwise.
        Like Lewis I see Hell is a door that is locked from the inside! That means a soul chooses their damnation or otherwise. God does not send a soul to hell he loves them but they may choose in their sin to flee from his grace and refuse to accept it. Salvation hence depends upon our ability to be open to Gods grace.
        Try to love your neighbour means that even if you cannot embrace them you shall pray for them and ask your Heavenly Father to help you learn to love them. So we shall understand rather than be understood etc. To find Gods love is the greatest grace that we can achieve in this life on earth and it is a struggle we engage in daily.

      • Scampy22,
        Yes, His Grace gives us Faith, to believe and it is a free gift, for the Undeserved! As the lyrics go…..He saved a Wretch Like me-Amazing Grace!!!
        The People are the multitude, the sea, and the Boat (Mother Church) will keep on sailing, In Christ’ Name, like a Phoenician Ship. Of Yesteryear!!
        I want to compliment your beautiful writing, today!
        C

  9. Doug,
    I see nothing wrong with turning out the wicked and whipping the base and corrupt. The Catholic Church has been exposed to recent scandals that have shown that there are many wolves in sheeps clothing in it still. Some of these have in the past (the long long past) been allowed to flourish. Quite frankly I do not see any reason for allowing them to continue and the sooner such wickedness is cleansed; no matter how painful, the better for the Universal Church. No problem with that and I would not expect any other reply to you.

    The issue of Authority depends upon whose authority however. Whilst I agree that the bowing down to tyranny would be unchristian and even diabolical (as an American I can understand the cry of the rebel from your camp against monarchy etc) and the Church has sometimes or even “often” over the centuries been caught up with political regimes that we may think as unsavoury today, the main principal of the Church is that it is Holy.
    To be Holy means it is united and wholsesome. In matters of faith and morality we are today presented with a Church that is still fighting in a hostile world for recognition. In Apostolic we understand it is a Church given to the World by Jesus whilst yet he lived on earth as man. It is Holy and Apostolic and in faith that means we believe it is the truest Church we have in the world today.
    Among many churches and many Christians we still hold to its Sacred and Holy Apostolic Mission!
    Agreed?

    In the person of the Pope we are presented with the Vicar of Christ, a man that must lead the Church through some very dangerous waters. The faithful look to his leadership and it is his hands upon the wheel that will guide the Church accordingly. He is assisted by countless Bishops and clergy (many if not are men of good faith at least) and the prayers of the faithful within the ship on the Holy See,

    If we hold to that fact about the pope and his office then we retain the Catholic Faith.

    In the world ie the sea the Church sails upon, there are many dangers and these often come in diabolical incantation. False anti-religion and false beliefs present demonic images that the Church steers through. Sometimes and most dangerous of all however is when Satan presents himself as an angel of light. A smile and a cheer are more deceptive than a sneer or spitting attitude. So in the History of the Catholic Church it has encountered many that claimed to be in the Church but were actually deceptions. many have followed these into the waters never to be seen again.
    In recent years the Church has brought a Council that was primarily pastoral into effect.
    The enemy has in some cases sneered that the helm leader was incorrect and not properly competent. Come join the breakaway schismatic Boat!

    This is unacceptable to the majority of the faithful because they believe that the authority of the pope and popes is for our common good and therefore the advert of a new but respectable older tradition is actually false! The Catholic Church remains Holy and Apostolic and will not succumb to this new face of sincere but ultimately wicked clerics. There is nothing new in the attempt to suggest the Church has lost its authority because in history often the Church has had detractors be they heretics or enlightened philosophers.
    The True helm is driven by a pope with true authority.

    To such overall authority then, it would be foolish or even calculated to war against. The Church in its faithfulness to its popes has endured and will continue to do so.

    The very ideal of the site to Love God and relax etc is a good one. If we understand that God is always what ever happens in control and that he made us to love him and be happy with him in the world and the next etc then we remain true to the faith and the teachings of the pope and his Bishops.

    I hope that gives you more hope for the future in a Church Militant? Despite scenes to the contrary I am pleased that you are at least able to explore the faith and keep a challenge to it in your own life as that search for truth is part of our pilgrimage through this veil of tears but it is always to the good.
    I just hope personally that you never succumb to the breaching away of Our One Holy and Apostolic Church (with our pope and bishops etc) in favour of the attraction of bright deceptions from other dishonourable states.

    • We must remain true to the teachings of the bishops and the pope only when those teachings are solidly in line with tradition, scripture AND the 1950 years worth of solid Catholic magisterial teachings – going all the way back to Jesus and the Apostles. It’s all three, or nothing! Calling something “pastoral” and using that as an excuse to pursue faith-destroying novelties is not a legitimate exercise of pastoral authority. It is and remains an abuse of power and great scandal. From a doctrinal standpoint, what was true from the beginning must still be true today – for if it is not, then we have all been all living a lie. From a purely pastoral standpoint, without a firm foundation in infallible church doctrine, no pastor can rightly shepherd his flock. The abuses and corruption found in all of the major Catholic Charities, the lack of genuine Catholic spirituality and tradition in virtually every major “Catholic” university, plus the ineffective leadership of most of today’s Catholic bishops – not to mention the clerical abuse scandals – are the proof! There was a time when only one bishop in the entire church kept the true faith, while every other bishop – including the pope – had adopted a damnable heresy which could have damaged the church, almost beyond repair. In the end, the truth won out. But without divine assistance and the timely and heroic action of Saint Athanasius, there’s no telling what Catholics would believe today! After some fifty years of close observation and study, I have come to the realization that the corruption in today”s Catholic Church has reached unprecedented levels that would make even a Pharisee blush, in shame. So – the gloves are off and those in authority had better start doing their jobs – or they are going to hear about it. I work in defense of the Church – not against it! And I’m not willing to allow the spiritual holocaust of the last fifty years to go on any longer than necessary. I think it’s time you took the blinders off. It’s not all sweetness and light out there. Not by a long shot. And a lot of other people – Catholics from all around the world – have recently started to take note – and do something about it!

      Doug

      • Doug,
        But it is not up to the laity to decide off their own free will when something is true or otherwise.
        Again the pope is like the captain of a Ship and to turn from his authority is Mutiny and treason.
        I dont know about you but I find that unacceptable ALWAYS.
        The Pope is the rightful leader of the Church on earth and he is indeed the chief Lawmaker and interpreter of what is right in tradition and in daily understanding.
        To forget this point or to side with heretical breakaway bishops that are themselves proven to be violet sinners what with a holocaust denying freak amongst their party is to be worse than absolute folly.
        We shall always disagree on this matter I expect? I hope not but there we go again.
        My prayers for your safety always my friend..

      • One of the fundamental tenets of Vatican II is the primacy of individual conscience. One of the primary abuses of this tenet is that everyone forgets that their conscience should be formed according to traditional Catholic principles. When highly placed Catholic clerics – or other Catholics – forget to act accordingly, then it becomes our responsibility to correct them. Popes are not infallible in ordinary matters. Nor are they typically very good at overcoming their own personal biases and limitations. Nor are they – apparently – very good at doing interviews. Extremists are a problem on both sides. This pope has gone out of his way to insult and demean large numbers of Catholics in order to further his political goals. He has done this arrogant thing while claiming to be humble and he has chosen to do it very blatantly and very early in his papacy. I’ve see all this before, in U.S. politics – and it is poison. I didn’t accept such tactics in that context and I will not tolerate such behavior in my church. Not from a pope or a bishop or a priest – or anyone else. Never again, I say! As for your comment about the pope being in charge of church tradition – you’re absolutely wrong. The Holy Spirit is the one who – by means of Sacred Tradition – lovingly guides the Church – in all truth – from age to age. If something is not firmly anchored in the truth, then it cannot be attributed to the Holy Spirit and it cannot legitimately be a part of church tradition. For an example, I give you the aftermath of the 2nd Vatican Council! Pious appearances aside – the hierarchy occasionally decides to go along with the Holy Spirit – but not very often. Much like other politicians, they cause more trouble, than anything else. I often wonder if these guys even believe anything for which they are supposed to stand. I speak from long experience and close observation. And here we are!

        Doug

  10. Cathy,
    thank you 🙂

  11. Doug,
    The pope is the leader of the Church and its laws as he is the Bishop Primus in the World. Yes he is led by the Holy Spirit and it is up to the Church, its clergy and laity to support what he says and does.
    When individuals assume unto themselves the authority of contradicting a pontiff they are in grave danger of assuming that they are true vessels of grace and able to correct the First Bishop of Bishops on earth.
    This can be dangerous but we understand that we are sinners and should seek to understand rather than be understood. That means that we also keep about us a spirit of humility and regard what the Pope says; ESPECIALLY when he is applauded by the worlds Catholic Bishops and laity generally as the true pope and thus the vessel of Gods wisdom for his Church.
    To disagree with the Pope over any point is very human but when it comes down to it we must as Catholics stand silent before his decisions because the tradition and understanding of Our Catholic Church is that he speaks with a great wisdom. So what we think about that as otherwise is really quite irrelevant.

    • Scapy22
      To be a Catholic, you must submit your Will and Intellect……a very Difficult thing for Modern Man!
      I do not believe, Everday Catholics realize this, they think is, a Medieval Practice!

      • The Pope is indeed all you say, so long as he faithfully teaches and practices what the Catholic Church has always taught and practiced, since the time of Christ, forward. When anyone – even a Pope departs from such things, the faithful are confused and scandalized and it becomes a matter of prudential judgment for every individual Catholic, based on his knowledge of the faith, the grace of God and his conscience. Even the Pope would agree with that!

        This is what Jesus said about relationship:

        As he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him. And one said unto him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee. But he answering him that told him, said: Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother. (Matthew 12:46-50)

        There’s no doubt that God wills all to be one in Christ, just as Jesus and God the Father are one. No offense – but how does that make the Christ denying, Trinity denying, Bible denying Jews my spiritual brothers?

    • Catholic Canon Law 212.3 gives you and I the right – actually, the duty – to respectfully engage in such activities: “According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, [the faithful] have the right and even the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of the faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.”

      Please study the wording, as it specifically addresses many of your claims and concerns.

      Cheers!

      Doug


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