Seen on the web re: Illinois politicians using the Pope’s comments for cover on their vote to legalize homosexual marriage

Janet Baker
November 6, 2013 at 11:30 pm · Reply

I just don’t see it that he has been misrepresented. He said what he said. He had the chance to deny that he said we were not ‘to judge.’ But in fact that is Vatican II’s legacy, when it made the Church subsist along with all others in a greater ‘church’ where salvation may be found for all, without Christ, without the sacraments, without baptism. It is a doctrinal problem and Pope Francis’ words accurately reflect the doctrine of that cursed council. Perhaps God is letting us have enough rope to hang ourselves. It was easier to believe Benedict’s more elevated modernism, to hope it meant that everything was okay, would turn out okay, without the painful process that rooting out that council and that rotten doctrine. Maybe now the middle-of-the-roaders, who forget yesterday’s lesson as soon as they awaken each morning, will finally get it. What that awakening means for us, I do not know. It is the duty of the Cardinals to declare a manifest heretic. They can do that. If he allows a woman ‘cardinal,’ will they? By the way, this is not the first time the flaw has influenced our politics: democratic politicians, including Nancy Pelosi and Biden, cite the Council as the source of their votes on abortion.

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Is it even possible for a pope (or popes) to “sink” the Barque of Peter?

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Whatever the state of the Church back in 1958, one thing is certain, relatively speaking, it was one hell of a lot healthier than the Church of 2013. Again, liberals who rather enjoy believing and behaving as protestants will disagree, but it’s the truth.

Pope Francis pointed out in his recent interview that John XXIII employed an approach to Church governance that is summarized in the following motto:

“See everything; turn a blind eye to much; correct a little.”

I hadn’t heard that before, but it rings true. John XXIII corrected, not a little, but nothing as far as I know. For example, he promulgated the very important Apostolic Constitution,Veterum Sapientia, and yet when bishops conferences and seminary rectors thumbed their nose at it, he did nothing.

Later in his short pontificate, John XXIII ordered that the Catechism of the Council of Trent should be republished, but that order also fell on deaf ears without any repercussion.

The high point of this spineless pontificate came in October 1962. The liberal faction among the Council Fathers’ first order of business at Vatican II was to summarily dismiss the 72 schemata painstakingly drafted over a period of more than two years by the Preparatory Commission appointed by Pope John XXIII for that very purpose. Though the mutiny-bent bishops couldn’t manage the 2/3 majority necessary according to the council’s rules to formally reject the schemata, the pope let them do it anyway.

You get the point.

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Did six Protestant ministers at the 2nd Vatican Council really help design the Novus Ordo Mass?

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(Vatican II’s “Fantastic Six” didn’t really wear numbers)

Returning to the “myth” that Protestant observers did not contribute in creating the New Mass, to hold this position is to deny the obvious – not only in fact, but also in substance. In the first place, an ecumenical liturgy that would no longer offend Protestants was Fr. Annibale Bugnini’s intention from the get-go as he declared in 1965:

We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants… [my emphasis]

While we learn from the close confidant of Pope Paul VI, Jean Guitton:

The intention of Pope Paul VI with regard to what is commonly called the Mass, was to reform the Catholic Liturgy in such a way that it should almost coincide with the Protestant liturgy. There was with Pope Paul VI an ecumenical intention to remove, or, at least to correct, or, at least to relax, what was too Catholic in the traditional sense in the Mass and, I repeat, to get the Catholic Mass closer to the Calvinist mass” [my emphasis][4].

To accomplish this ecumenical goal, the Consilium
enlisted the help of these Protestant observers:

  1. A. Raymond George (Methodist)
  2. Ronald Jaspar (Anglican)
  3. Massey Shepherd (Episcopalian)
  4. Friedrich Künneth (Lutheran)
  5. Eugene Brand (Lutheran)[5]
  6. Max Thurian (Calvinist-community of Taize).

Their contribution in creating the New Mass was immortalized in a picture taken of them during an audience with Pope Paul VI after thanking them for their assistance. The image was subsequently published in L’Osservatore Romano on April 23, 1970 with the title: “Commission Holds Final Meeting, Pope Commends Work of Consilium”.

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Talk is “cheap”

wolfy2Since the Council we have witnessed, for the first time in the Church’s bimillenial history, the emergence of a strain of Catholic “neo-conservatism”—hence neo-Catholicism—characterized by a staunch defense of unprecedented ecclesial novelties the Popes before the Council would have viewed with utter horror. Among other novelties comprising the liberalized ecclesial status quo of the post-conciliar epoch, the neo-Catholic defends the new vernacular liturgy (including the appalling spectacle of altar girls, approved by “John Paul the Great”), the new “ecumenism,” which has all but de-missionized the Church, and the new “dialogue,” which has reduced the perennial preaching of the Gospel with the authority of Christ Himself to a vacuous  “discussion-ism” that avoids any open proclamation of the imperatives of divine revelation, especially the claims of Christ on nations as well as individuals.

Concerning “dialogue,” as Romano Amerio observed in his masterwork Iota Unum, this “is very new in the Catholic Church…” The word “was completely unknown in the Church’s teaching before the Council. It does not occur once in any previous council, or in papal encyclicals, or in sermons or in pastoral practice.” Yet this novelty suddenly appears 28 times in the Vatican II documents that were drafted in haste after the classically written preparatory schema, years in the making, were tossed into the trash following the famous Rhine group uprising on the Council’s third day. (Cfr. Wiltgen’s The Rhine Flows into the Tiber, pp. 15-60). Amerio notes that dialogue, “through its lightning spread and an enormous broadening of meaning, became the master-word determining post-conciliar thinking, and a catch-all category in the newfangled mentality.”  (Iota Unum, p. 347). The newfangled mentality to which Amerio refers is the mentality fairly described as neo-Catholic.

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Editor’s note: A definition of Sacred and Apostolic Tradition: The means by which the Holy Spirit infallibly guides the Catholic Church, from age to age.

Pope’s latest homily hints that the “Spirit of Vatican II” may have been the “Spirit of the World”.

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Pope Francis said: “It’s not enough to say: ‘But I believe in God, God is the only God.’ That’s fine, but how do you live this out in your life’s journey? Because we can say, ‘The Lord is the only God, there is no other’, but then live as if He was not the only God and have other deities at our disposal … There is a danger of ‘ idolatry: idolatry, which is brought to us through the spirit of the world. And in this Jesus was clear: the spirit of the world, no. At the Last Supper he asks the Father to defend us from the spirit of the world, because the spirit of the world leads us to idolatry. ”

The Pope continued: “Idolatry is subtle…we all have our hidden idols” and “the path of life to follow, to not be far from the kingdom of God” involves “discovering our hidden idols.”

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Editor’s note: The “Spirit of Vatican II” was the “hidden idol” of the liberal Catholics who did their best to wreck the Church after Vatican II … and they haven’t stopped trying … to this day.

Dirty little secret about the 2nd Vatican Council: Many of the evils the pre-conciliar popes opposed, have been triumphant in the everyday life of the Church ever since.

As the Holy Father wrote of “liturgical renewal, joyful fervor, and radiant vitality,” the Archdiocese of Detroit, by contrast (to name just one such example), was addressing the real world state-of-affairs by unveiling plans to board-up some 40% of its parishes.

His successor, Pope Benedict XVI, followed suit, painting similarly unrealistic portraits of the Council’s impact on Catholic life.

On January 1, 2013, for example, Catholics who have long since accepted bankrupt dioceses, empty seminaries and irreverent liturgies as the “new normal” heard Pope Benedict’s Message for the World Day of Peace, in which the Holy Father spoke of “the Second Vatican Council which helped to strengthen the Church’s mission in the world.”

The matter-of-factness with which the pope offered this assessment would seem to suggest that it is simply self-evident that the Council fortified the Church, and yet one is hard pressed to deny that every meaningful measure indicates precisely the opposite.

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Vatican/Society of Saint Pius X controversy rages on. See the reader comments.

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