Did the Protestant Bible Exist Before the Reformation?

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A frank discussion of various positions, based on the latest available research.

Spoiler: Catholics 9 – Protestants 0 

Seen on the web re: Illinois politicians using the Pope’s comments for cover on their vote to legalize homosexual marriage

Janet Baker
November 6, 2013 at 11:30 pm · Reply

I just don’t see it that he has been misrepresented. He said what he said. He had the chance to deny that he said we were not ‘to judge.’ But in fact that is Vatican II’s legacy, when it made the Church subsist along with all others in a greater ‘church’ where salvation may be found for all, without Christ, without the sacraments, without baptism. It is a doctrinal problem and Pope Francis’ words accurately reflect the doctrine of that cursed council. Perhaps God is letting us have enough rope to hang ourselves. It was easier to believe Benedict’s more elevated modernism, to hope it meant that everything was okay, would turn out okay, without the painful process that rooting out that council and that rotten doctrine. Maybe now the middle-of-the-roaders, who forget yesterday’s lesson as soon as they awaken each morning, will finally get it. What that awakening means for us, I do not know. It is the duty of the Cardinals to declare a manifest heretic. They can do that. If he allows a woman ‘cardinal,’ will they? By the way, this is not the first time the flaw has influenced our politics: democratic politicians, including Nancy Pelosi and Biden, cite the Council as the source of their votes on abortion.

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Prominent blogger’s opinion of Michael Voris – “He strikes me as a conspiratorial blowhard who has a thing about Jews and who has all the subtlety and wit of a dead possum.”

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Link: See the com box

Editor’s note: To be fair, let’s carefully parse Donald R. McClarey’s personal comment on Michael Voris.

“He strikes me…” (Yes, he does. MV tends to get right in everyone’s face as he delivers news of the latest public scandals and failings of those who dare to call themselves Catholic. Nobody wants to hear that kind of stuff, but we know it’s true.) 

“as a conspiratorial blowhard…” (Conspiratorial? How did all those altar rails come down, tabernacles get moved and all those liberal prelates obtain their positions, if not by some form of organized political effort within the universal church? The late Cardinal Bernardin was indeed a highly placed, Chicago style “wheeler – dealer” – and the U.S. church is still recovering from his various appointments and his ill considered. self-serving “seamless garment” approach. Then there were the abusive priests who were for years, secretly transferred from diocese to diocese to diocese. That didn’t happen by accident – so what would you call it, if not some kind of a coordinated effort/conspiracy? A good old boy’s club? Malfeasance – negligence – malpractice – or what? Certainly not an act of God!)

“who has a thing about Jews…” (It can be legitimately claimed that Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis had/have “a thing” about Jews. What “thing” might that be? How about lumping every individual Jew and Jewish organization into one big group and claiming that they all believe exactly the same things, and are working toward precisely the same ends – which are all good – which means we Catholics are no longer supposed to be concerned with their conversion – which is a bunch of outright lies – and is also about as patronizing, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic and bereft of human charity as can be! MV understands that not everyone who personally identifies as Jewish has the best interests of the the Catholic Church – or the world – in mind. The same can be rightly said about many Christian denominations and other groups. So what’s the problem? Or do you too have “a thing” about Jews?)

“and who has all the subtlety and wit of a dead possum…” (Possums that only appear to be dead are actually very, very subtle. As for MV – I would classify this as an ad hominem attack – and that’s simply unfair – like shooting the messenger who brings bad news.)

Latest SCOTUS ruling: Casual contempt for the citizenry.

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What connects the above to today’s decisions in Washington is the slapdash contempt of Anthony Kennedy’s opinion. Whatever the merits of gay marriage, it ought to revolt anyone with a decent respect for self-government that this incompetent jurist could find no other way to frame the issue than to besmirch the motives of those who oppose him. As Justice Scalia wrote:

To defend traditional marriage is not to condemn, demean, or humiliate those who would prefer other arrangements, any more than to defend the Constitution of the United States is to condemn, demean, or humiliate other constitutions. To hurl such accusations so casually demeans this institution. In the majority’s judgment, any resistance to its holding is beyond the pale of reasoned disagreement… It is one thing for a society to elect change; it is another for a court of law to impose change by adjudging those who oppose it hostes humani generis, enemies of the human race. 

What I always objected to in Canada about Section 13 was its casual contempt for the citizenry, the same contempt on display today in Washington and London. Like Theresa May, Justice Kennedy would rather impute motive than engage argument. The need to delegitimize those who disagree does indeed “demean this institution”, and is profoundly disturbing.

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Seen on the web: Scandal trumped up by homosexuals in the church to bring Father Corapi down?

Quote from: Gerard:

Quote from: Lavalliere

I think Fr. Corapi stepped on someone’s toes and they have it in for him.

I am no groupie of his. I don’t watch EWTN nor do I listen to what purports to be Catholic radio. But I have been following this latest brouhaha. I have noticed how the neo-cats aren’t being very sympathetic to him. Looks to me like word has filtered down from the “powers that be” grapevine to denigrate Fr. Corapi, which is why I am saying that it appears to me that he didn’t play ball with someone and they have it in for him…big time. To tell you the truth, even if “evidence” that will convict him is forthcoming, I won’t buy it.

It is inconceivable to me that anyone who has been through what Fr. Corapi has been through would be so foolish as to let down his spiritual guard and throw it all away for a silly and cunning woman; yes, that’s right, a silly and cunning woman, who isn’t worth the loss of his soul or his priesthood.

Remember, you heard it first from Lavalliere. Just consider this a Fisheaters Exclusive. Smiley

This is 100% speculation on my part, so don’t take any of it as anything else. I have only anecdotes to reference that inspired this speculation. I think he upset the homosexual network within the hierarchy. In 2006 he did a series called “Catholic Come Home” and he blasted homosexual activity with a level of force that would have made Bishop Williamson tell him to dial it back if he’d been in the room.

In 2010 he touched on the subject again and clearly stated the Church’s talking points on the subject but he also added the usual don’t harass, ridicule or treat badly anyone suffering with this disorder. It was fine, but he definitely made an effort to soften the edges of his presentation. I suspected that somebody in the hierarchy got to him on that issue and ordered him to change his approach.

This no doubt. The militant homosexuals who have infiltrated the Church over the years despise this man greatly and have had it out for him for years. They will attempt to destroy Fr’s ministry anyway they can and are not concerned about playing by the rules. The homosexuals are an especially nasty group and will pull out all the stops in getting what they want, just like in the secular world.

There was a thread started about homosexuality collapsing empires, well they’re doing their best to collapse the Church even at a time where the church has gone out of it’s way placating them and sugarcoating their “disorder”, they don’t care about that, they want 100% acceptance and equality and the education of children into their “lifestyle”.. Nothing else will suffice.

Also as mentioned in other threads, there is a war going on right now within the Church and the usurpers need to get good priests Fr Corapi and Fr E out of the way so the real onslaught can begin. I even see them going after the pro-life priests next in their little culture war against the more conservative clergy across the board.

Link

Will success spoil Father John Corapi?

By Doug Lawrence

Some have maintained that the statement issued by Santa Cruz Media was in some way, disobedient, inappropriate or misleading. Taking it at face value, I see it merely as additional positive confirmation of the facts alleged in Father Corapi’s original statement.

By now, many have figured out that Santa Cruz Media Inc. is a corporation of which the CEO and registered agent appears to be none other than Father John Corapi. I say, “So what?” For a host of reasons, running a business through a corporation is a smart way to go. Furthermore … the statement of Bobbi Ruffatto, Vice President of Operations at Santa Cruz Media, stands on its own as the best, first hand, eye-witness testimony we have, so far. I’m grateful for that.

As for the part about the corporation being a private, secular corporation, not under the jurisdiction of the Catholic Church: Of course that’s true! And because of that, there is absolutely no reason for Santa Cruz Media to suspend normal business operations, even though Father Corapi has been temporarily suspended from his ministry.

Some have also assumed that Father Corapi had taken a vow of poverty … something which seems very unlikely, based on his apparent living arrangements. But even if he did, there’s nothing to say that he couldn’t have been dispensed from that vow.

Then we have others who are concerned that Father Corapi has been looking rather tan and has apparently been dying his hair. Again I say, “So what?” The man has been sick, he’s no spring chicken, and he’s smart to maintain his appearance … especially since he regularly appears on television.  A nice tan and a bit of hair color makes you look alive for the camera … and it also minimizes the need for a lot of troublesome and tedious makeup.

In this age of 1080p HD TV such things are more important than ever … especially for those who already have a lot of miles on them. Ask anyone in the industry!

Now … about that late model BMW automobile that Father Corapi allegedly chooses to drive…

I hate BMW’s!

Conscience, church teachings, and when it’s OK to disagree.

… A Catholic is not bound to an fallible document. If, in good conscience, he cannot accept a certain teaching from a fallible document because he believes it contains one or more erroneous teachings, he is not bound to keep those particular teachings.

He is only bound to keep it if the Church declares that the doctrine is infallible. Any other doctrine can be contested for conscience sake.

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Editor’s note: If only we could agree on which documents are which!